SPN - 6.08

[feliciakw]

Interesting ep. Functional. New monster. Got some insight into how Sam's brain is working. Reception blacked out during the final emotesposition.

I totally understand where Jensen's frustration was coming from when giving that interview he gave during the shooting of this ep. The one he had to clarify because of the meltdown. And his asking Sera to give Sam his soul back. Jensen has often talked in the past about how difficult it is when he doesn't have that brother dynamic to play off of with Jared. I recall him mentioning it during WIaWSNB. And now, with this season, we're up to 8 eps wherein he's working without that dynamic. I get the clear impression that he misses it, and he wants it back.

I'm finding this "new" Sam interesting, but I miss the brother dynamic, too, and will be very happy to get it back.

Also, it's interesting that now Dean is relating to the monsters who don't want to be monsters.

That's all for now.

ETA: Sorry. I shouldn't have said anything. I don't speak for anyone but myself, and I only speak from my own experiences and observations. Only Jensen knows for sure what he thinks and how he feels about anything. For me to try to explain why I think he might have said what he said, to explain my impressions of it, is rather pointless. Particularly when I can't do it well. I shouldn't have mentioned it.

Comments

[leelust.livejournal.com]

I find this sam badly written and i didn't get that impression about Jensen motivations. He's a great actor and having to play the same dymnamics for 8 eps - i doubt that would bother him. What i think his motive to ask sera to stop that crap about no soul was because he's big picture guy and he sees that it doesn't work. People are just boring and that's it. They need to change the dynamics to make viewers interested. Imo of course.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

I'm just going by what Jensen has said. He has said that it's weird/difficult/challenging to work without that dynamic that he's grown comfortable with and depends on, playing off of Jared in the brother dynamic. Of course he can play the dynamics that are written, but that doesn't mean he doesn't miss the old dynamic that he worked on and counted on for years.

I don't find soulless Sam uninteresting. Of course, I've watched other shows where lack of soul has been a topic of the show (Data on ST:TNG, for example, who was always trying to figure out how to be human, trying to understand emotions, etc.). This is a different approach to the topic--colder, more pragmatic. Maybe Jensen does find it uninteresting. Maybe he doesn't think it will work in the big picture or the long run. I don't know, because he hasn't said. But he has said that when he doesn't have the brother dynamic to work with and play off of with Jared, it's strange and challenging. And I can understand why he would miss it. Just going by what he's said in the past, I think that's where some of this frustration might have come from at that point in time.

Of course, I could be wrong. Only Jensen knows for sure.

I think this soulless business is an interesting storyline for now, though for me it is difficult to watch, because it hurts Dean so. I want to see Sam get his soul back, and for them to rebuild the brother relationship.

[leelust.livejournal.com]

That's the thing - challenging and Jensen always said he likes challenge. I can see him missing that dynamics but otoh playing the same dynamics for 6 years? It bores you no matter how much thought you put in it.

As for *soulless* storyline i just don't find it logically written. I have an idea when it all can work but i'm not sure the show will go there and if not then there's no logic because Sam feels when it fits the story and doesn't feel when it fits the story and i can't follow that all over the place writing.
There's the reason why i don't like sociopths. i don't watch Dexter because of it.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

That's the thing - challenging and Jensen always said he likes challenge. I can see him missing that dynamics but otoh playing the same dynamics for 6 years? It bores you no matter how much thought you put in it.

I feel like I'm not explaining myself and how I'm understanding Jensen's words very well, and that we've lost the point of the original conversation. We obviously see things very differently, and understand his words differently. I'm not sure if you understand where I'm coming from, or if you simply don't agree. Either way, I think we've probably come to the end of the conversation as to what Jensen meant when he gave that interview. We each can only see and perceive his words through our own understanding, which is different. I've said all I can say, explained my thoughts and point of view to the best of my ability, and saying anything more would just be repeating what I've already said.

It doesn't really matter anyway.

In the future, I think I'll try to refrain from sharing my insight and interpretation of what Jensen says about such "controversial" things unless specifically asked.

As for the soulless storyline, I don't see it being illogically written. Rather, we continue to have information given to us that requires us to re-think what's come before.

Sam feels when it fits the story and doesn't feel when it fits the story

That's not really how I see it. Rather, the more we learn, the more we discover that Sam has been acting, displaying the feelings he knows are expected, but not really feeling them. Like in the season opener, he really looked like he cared about Lisa and Ben, if for no other reason than Dean cared about Lisa and Ben. Now we know that he doesn't, which means he was acting. That's not a contradiction; that's additional information revealed to us.

And actually, these reveals are in keeping with how I've been reading things since the beginning of the season.

[gatorpez.livejournal.com]

I don't think I agree that Jensen's statements were because of how Sam is being written and that Jensen found it difficult to act with this version of Sam. I take Jensen's statements as he said them, it was about Dean's characterization and Dean's storyline. Dean has been written a little soft (he's the one constantly being attacked or influenced by the monsters of the week) and he's not being proactive; I think Jensen thinks Dean would be doing "something" not just sitting by and doing nothing with regard to the outstanding issues (Sam, Samuel, Crowley, the Alphas).

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Well, I partially agree with you. Yes, I understand that Jensen was talking about how Dean was being written, that Jensen felt Dean was "soft" at the beginning of the season, and that it was up to Jensen to toughen him up, etc. What I mean is, I think the lack of brother dynamic was an additional underlying frustration that might have come out in that interview. (I hope that makes sense. I don't seem to be explaining myself very well.)

I do not agree that Dean has been passive or weak or soft. (Soft*er*, yes. More level-headed, yes. Less impulsive, more circumspect.) And I'd very much like to sit down with Jensen and tell him that what he's doing with the character works, and I like it. Dean is most definitely "doing something" when it comes to Dean's primary goal--saving people. The being attacked or influenced by the monsters I think will come into play later. (At least, I'm kinda hoping it will.)

I tried to explain to leelust up-thread why I think Jensen's frustration came from the lack of brother dynamic as much as anything else. I only have what Jensen has said in the past to go on, and I could be totally off-base. Only Jensen knows for sure. But if I as an audience member am getting a little frustrated, I can only imagine that it's more so with Jensen, who has spent years building and counting on and playing off of that dynamic with Jared.

[blacklid.livejournal.com]

(posted blank? huh) The back and forth in the car, yep. You're not wrong. Interesting, too, that Sam still FEELS able to breach into total honesty in these talks at a picnic bench and not in the car... there, it is probably a bit like being outnumbered. That's still Sam...

[girlyghoul70.livejournal.com]

Interesting, too, that Sam still FEELS able to breach into total honesty in these talks at a picnic bench and not in the car... there, it is probably a bit like being outnumbered. That's still Sam...

Oh, like the Impala will side with Dean? Like "No Sam... Dean's right... you just aren't the same man who drove me into that Semi! I'm puffing some exhaust your way, Soulless!"

Heh.

And I sure do miss the brother dymanic. This Sammy-Like thing walking and talking with Dean can mimic Sam but just isn't... and it's like Dean's all alone even in his company. It's very sad. I'm so ready to dive into that cage and fetch Sammy's soul myself just to bring things back to normal. *sniff*

[mtee.livejournal.com]

Totally out of the loop regarding whatever Jensen said.. if you can steer me in the direction of a transcript or video.. would be interesting to read his comments etc. I assume the meltdown came from fans?

I would think it would be very challenging having this storyline. The whole balance that they created has been upended... it's like starting from square one.. but the other side can't emote... there's nothing to play off.......... it's like having to play off of a wall. The character (Sam)doesn't react... and I would assume it's that give and take that really motivates the actors... gets their juices going.. makes their performance stronger. I'm sure Jared is going to get frustrated soon.. that's a tough thing to keep up. He's doing a good job though.

Plus............. I admit I am ready to have the soul thing over soon... by holiday break would be good. It's interesting, but I feel they are pretty close to squeezing out all the creative juices regarding robo-Sam. Hopefully, they are aware instead of trying to stretch this too much.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Well, here's the most complete and objective transcript (http://tv.ign.com/articles/112/1122886p1.html) of the interview in question.

And yes, the meltdown came from the fandom. I found other "news" articles that talked about and selectively quoted the interview, and everything was spun to make it sound like Jensen was "unhappy." Which is not what he said at all.

Here's the conversation from my LJ (http://feliciakw.livejournal.com/308729.html).

Then at one of the con meet&greets, he elaborated on what he said, and Jensen set the record straight (http://fangasmthebook.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/jensen-ackles-loves-his-job-setting-the-record-straight-at-chicon/).

It was in one of the fan reports, I believe, where it was reported that he said he asked Sera to give Sam his soul back.

And you know, after re-skimming his comments about having to work without that chemistry, I stand by my assessment that that's part of where his frustration was coming from. But as I said, that's just me.

I want to address the acting aspect of your comment, but my eyes are droopy at the moment. Remind me, and I'll try to come back to it, if you want.

[mtee.livejournal.com]

Thanks.. that was interesting reading. I see his point though.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see his point, and I totally understand. I just don't think the portion of the fandom that had a meltdown got it.