Hopes for S6

[feliciakw]

I've been thinking about this for a few days, and Geo and I just talked about what he thought of the season (story) finale. He says he's very interested in how they're going to get themselves out of the corner they've painted themselves into (which is a completely different story). But here's what I'd like to see next season:

The past five seasons have been Sam's story. It's always been Sam's story, even when Jensen came in and was more awesome and charismatic than I think anyone expected. The conflict between Good (capital G) and Evil (capital E) has always centered around Sam. That story is over now.

What I'd like to see next season is a storyline that centers around Dean. That might include Lisa and Ben in some way. And it might well have to be a much shorter story (if they don't get picked up for S7 or the guys don't want to renew their contracts). I also know that might sound like kind of a selfish request, because Dean was admittedly the better fleshed out of the two characters. We knew more about Dean and his inner workings and saw more of his inner struggles, I think, than we saw of Sam. But as I said, the story, the mytharc, has always been Sam's. I think it could be interesting if we had something that was Dean's.

/babbling

Comments

[leelust.livejournal.com]

Well, considering depression about one certain show i got right now i have to say i'd love for you to be right but Sera is well-known as avid samgirl and they already promissed us Dean's story and... well, you know how things turned out :(

because Dean was admittedly the better fleshed out of the two characters. We knew more about Dean and his inner workings and saw more of his inner struggles, I think, than we saw of Sam.
But was it because of the writing or because of the actor's skills? In fact i think we know a lot about sam too its just his inner struggle wasn't shown that deep and impressive as Dean's one but again wasn't it because of one actor's *not-skill*? I think writing-wise they fleshed out characters equally (which doesn't mean they did a good job on both). Just saying...
Oh, and i need to PM you about something but a little later. I hope it's ok.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

I think regarding Dean being the better fleshed out character, it's a combination of both the acting and the writing. The acting sort of informed the writing. What I mean is, the writers write a script. Then the actor acts the script. And the actor might not present it the way the writer had in mind. But they need to work with what the actor has given them. So in that regard, the actors sort of direct not so much what is written, but how it's presented. Does that make sense?

And the guys have even mentioned that as they became more comfortable playing the characters and started owning the characters, the writers started writing more to their acting styles. So do I think Jensen's being a better actor led to the character being better fleshed out? Yeah, I do. I don't think anyone quite expected Jensen to be as charismatic and as good as he is, and that he'd give them so much to use and to play with with Dean.

I see what you're saying in regards to Sam. And I do agree that from a pure talent POV, Jensen is the better actor, and that a lot of Sam's inner workings were presented. But I don't think they were examined as deeply. I do think Jared has improved a lot over the course of the series (no doubt because he was acting opposite Jensen), so I really don't blame the acting quite as much as what the writers gave us (or didn't explore) in that regard.

Does that make sense?

And you know? I'm really not that worried about Sera being a Sam!girl writer. She's written some pretty awesome stuff. She wrote "The Kids Are Alright," for example, which was a very Dean-centric ep. According to the wiki, she wrote "Crossroad Blues" and DaLDoM (which had that awesome scene for Jensen) and "Jus in Bello."

So I know Sera can give Dean good, solid, juicy stuff. Sam might be "hers" (and Dean is Ben Edlund's), but I don't think she's purposely shortchanged Dean in her stories. (If anything, it drives me nuts when Ben dumbs Dean down for the purpose of exposition.)

But regardless, the 5-year mytharc has always been Sam's. (In fact, when they told us Dean would have to be the one to "finish it," I thought that was kind of weird and problematic, because it felt like it would take the resolution of the mytharc away from Sam. So I'm not really surprised that they backpedaled on that point. They've been writing themselves into corners for years.

I hope that made sense.

And yes, feel free to PM me.

[just-ruth.livejournal.com]

I think we also knew more about Dean because - and this season made it blatant - Dean was Kripke's Westley Crusher.

Oh, and before he was Autolycus, Bruce Campbell made his directorial debut on Xena. (source: If Chins Could Kill - Bruce Campbell's autobiography) He also says the cabin the Evil Dead was filmed in was destroyed in a forest fire and then a bunch of "fans" dismantled the fireplace for souvenirs - one had the audacity to bring a stone to a book signing to have Bruce autograph it.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Dean was Kripke's Westley Crusher.

I'm not sure I understand what people mean by this. I've heard that Wesley was Roddenberry's avatar in the show, and Dean certainly wasn't representative of Kripke.

I didn't realize Bruce had ever directed for Xena. Or if I did, it's buried so far back in my memory that I don't know I knew. Or something.

Not at all surprised about the fans. Heh. I'm sure Evil Dead has some weird ones.

[ficwriter1966.livejournal.com]

I am there with you!

And I'll agree with the proposition that we know more about Dean (or feel like we do) because Jensen is so incredibly skilled at conveying metric tons of information by simply shifting his face, or inflecting a word.

What I'd wish for Dean in S6 is that he be allowed to "grow up" for lack of a better term. Let go of the lifelong belief that he has no place in the world other than to take care of Sam. Let him come to terms with his feelings about his father - what he felt his father didn't give him, and the fact that his father went to Hell so he could live.

I'd hope, as I've expressed in fic, that the memories of Hell could fade enough into the mist that he's not constantly confronted with the fact that he tortured souls (though they may well have deserved it).

I'd love to see a strong, independent, capable Dean - who loves classic rock, his car, a good bacon cheeseburger, a beer, a pretty woman (or twenty), and his LIFE, and can go about his job with the brash good humor we saw in S1.

That's not too much to ask, is it?

Beyond that... A nice supporting cast of interesting, 3-dimensional characters. A couple of worthy adversaries. A couple of recurring hunters. Perhaps a law enforcement official who discovers that - huh! Those two guys look like Sam and Dean Winchester. But didn't they die in a helicopter explosion?

Good storytelling, most of all.

No fanservice.
No Ghostfacers.
Stop killing people and then bringing them back. (Ben Edlund said, the writers intend to kill the boys a lot more times. Please, NO.)
No Big Damn Destinies.
No retconning.

More flashbacks. Pastor Jim. Young John and Mary. Weechesters.

And stop having people use Dean as a punching bag. Someone who's battered and bleeding isn't sexy. At all. Especially when it happens every other episode.

Okay, I'll stop now. :)

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

I'll agree with the proposition that we know more about Dean (or feel like we do) because Jensen is so incredibly skilled at conveying metric tons of information by simply shifting his face, or inflecting a word.

Oh, I'll agree that Jensen can take a little and turn it into a lot. In that regard, I think you're right in that we feel like we know more about Dean. But I also think the writers gave him more opportunities to play with that. He was made to confront his angst more often, or perhaps more obviously, than Sam was, if that makes any sense. So in that regard, I think the writers took Jensen's awesomeness and ran with it.

As far as getting S1 back, I don't see it happening. As Jensen said, they can't go back; too much has happened. Do I want to see him happy again? To see him regain his good humor? Of course! I want to see him smile and laugh and get excited about big pretzels. And if they do somehow keep him with Lisa (ala the Harvelles), I want him to remain faithful. That's part of the growing up, imo.

Maybe I'm not explaining it well, or maybe we just see Dean differently at this point. But I think he has grown up and that he sees the value of . . . being an adult, if that makes sense.

Regarding the rest of your list, no retconning should be a standard rule. :-)

I can take or leave Young John and Young Mary storylines. The time travel eps felt weird to me, so an entire episode of flashback would be my only other option for that. And if we're going to do flashbacks, I think I'd rather see it in regards to the brothers learning more about each other (like what Dean was doing while Sam was at Stanford).

The thing about Dean getting beat up all the time . . . if there's a heroic reason for it, I can maybe get behind that. (Like the contrast in the finale of a beaten-to-a-pulp Dean staying focused and present for Sam.) But every other week is a bit extreme. Give the dude a break, guys.

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I see where you're going with this, and to some extent I think we'll HAVE to have it, given where this season left us.

But I'd really love to see, not a Dean-centric storyline, but an equal storyline that gives us both more Dean and more Sam, now that they've both managed to actually grow up. Honestly, I've always been a Dean-girl...and it was the past half season that made me into a real Sam-girl as well. I'd hate to see that go to waste. :)

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

I think we could have a Dean-centric storyline that does give us more Dean and more Sam. Think back to early seasons. It was Sam's story, but we got a lot of Dean, too. And brothers reconnecting and working together and saving each other.

And now that they've both grown up, they can reconnect as adults as they resolve a Dean-centric storyline. (I know that sounds simplistic, but I don't think making a Dean-centric mini-arc needs to eliminate Sam or revert the progress they've made.)

But I think I see what you're saying about an equal storyline, which does have appeal to it.

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

Heh. I was trying to avoid sounding like a Sam!girl, but:

I think we could have a Dean-centric storyline that does give us more Dean and more Sam.

I'm pretty sure that's been the entire show, give or take an episode. I would actually really, really like to see a LOT more of Sam in this coming season (subject to however they need to mess around to bring him back, naturally)--not Sam the destined child, though, but Sam the brother and man. It'll be easier, I think, to give Dean his role (as it always has been; going back to s1 recently really reminded me how much Dean has always been a huge emotional center for the show) because of how this season is set up, so I'm eager to see how they manage to give Sam his due.

Basically, MOAR BOYZ. (emphasis on Sam or scrupulously equal storytelling most welcome by me.)

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

I was trying to avoid sounding like a Sam!girl

Ah. Heh. I shall remember that in the future. I always feel, being a Dean!girl who doesn't hate Sam, I have to be careful what I say to Sam!girls. It is often with limited (sometimes very limited) success. As I was telling someone else recently, I often feel like I'm being torn because when I speak up for Sam, some Dean!girl friends don't get it, but then I see a Sam!girl wanting more Sam (which makes sense; we each want more of and for our favorite character), and Dean feels pushed to the back burner.

So this is probably a subject we will not agree on, because we're either coming at this from different directions, or we disagree on who has been the central focus of the purpose of the story for the past five years.

I agree that Dean has been a strong emotional center of the story. I think a lot of that is Jensen's doing. And Dean has been a very important part of the resolution for Sam. Basically, it was a lifetime with Dean that gave Sam the strength to do what he did.

I do not agree that we've been watching a Dean-centric storyline for the past five years. (It feels like we have, because of Jensen, and because Dean's character has been better fleshed out, I think.) Dean has not been the central focus of the central conflict. If we look at it as a classic hero and sidekick combo, in the grand mytharc of the series, Dean has always been the sidekick. He's had his own mini-stories and hero moments within the greater journey, but the over-reaching, five-year arc hero's journey has been Sam's. So giving Dean his role--as it always has been--is as backup and emotional support for Sam. They've told that story. I'd like to see either them being emotional support for each other, or Sam being the support for Dean (and Dean letting him. *gasp* What a concept).

I guess if we were going to structure it like they have the past five years, we'd both get what we want. Dean, as the hero, would be less of the emotional focus than Sam, as the sidekick. Or something. I don't know.

As far as MOAR BOYZ goes, I agree. And if it is true that Jensen is going to direct an episode, you may will get your Sam emphasis for an episode or three. (I think Rob Morrow said his acting load had to be lightened for about three episodes if he was directing--one for pre-production, one for shooting . . . and one for post-production? Something like that.)

I hope that made sense. Obviously, YMWV.

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I don't think we're coming at it from different povs, necessarily, but I think what the show wanted to do and what it actually accomplished were very, very different. Kripke and Co. thinks it's always been about Sam; and they actually tipped the stories in that direction for some of the past season (5). But before that? Despite the mytharc's supposed centrality around Sam, and Sam's place as the--well, the MacGuffin, I guess, lol--the story that's been told has been about family, and that's always been centered around Dean. Dean hasn't just been the emotional center, he's been the storytelling center and the grounding principle and the boldest expression of both the binding harm and the glorious redemption of family ties.

Sam was supposed to be the plot center, and he eventually did become that as the show grew; but SPN has always been character and thematic heavy, and up until recently I think Dean has carried the majority of that weight.

Not that I have anything to complain about, there. *g* I love me my Dean-centric stories and that whole emotional core has struck me harder than anything except Life on Mars.

But that's why I'd like to see so much more Sam and/or equal story time. I feel like we've not gotten to see nearly enough of the Sam that I have grown to love, despite his mytharc position.

Wow, I really hope Jensen gets to direct. Just because I have a feeling he would do such a great job! Let me know if that gets confirmed! *starry-eyed glee*

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

You know, I get what you're saying about Dean, and I think I totally agree. And I think that was a lot of Jensen's doing, and I think Kripke & Co. had no clue what hit 'em. *bg*

I'm thinking about writing an essay/meta discussing Sam's mytharc vis-a-vis Dean's emotional arc (which you sum up here nicely), and why I preferred the latter to the former. This is not new for me; I felt the same way with XF. The mytharc eps were some of my least favorite. (In fact, the reason I didn't watch the show in first run was because the pilot ep was all about the alien abduction mytharc, and I'm just not that interested in alien abduction story lines.)

Have you read the CW press release or the mini-spoiler (not really) in Jensen's interview with the Brazilian mag? 'Cause from what he's said? I'm so freakin' excited for him it's not even funny.

Well, maybe a little funny.

And yes, Jensen directing would be awesome. Look at the directors he's learned from. (Kim Manners, anyone?)

[kimmer1227.livejournal.com]

What do I want for S6?

Boyz.
Pretteh boyz
Angsty boyz
Happy boyz
Whomped up boyz
Heroic boyz
Together boyz
Funny boyz
Independent boyz
Sexxay boyz
Smirky boyz
Smart boyz
Stoopid boyz
Complex boyz
Boyz!

Anything else is gravy.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Well, I think you're pretty much guaranteed items 1-3, 5, 10, 14, and 15.

So you're good to go. :-)

[mtee.livejournal.com]

Did you see CW is moving Supernatural to FRIDAYS??
Also CW posted major spoilers for SPN.

Why would they change an established time. Because they feel Season 6 will be the final one.. so why worry about ratings?

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Yes, I gave into temptation and read the synopsis that was released at the upfronts. Nothing surprising really, at this point, and there's a lot of room to move and lots of potential. And one aspect of it kind of amuses me.

Re: the move to Friday . . . Here's my whacky, cracky therory: The move might actually be an attempt to get the ratings to warrant a S7. Bear in mind that I know nothing of how network execs' brains work, but here's my logic:

Moving it to Friday pairs it once again with Smallville, a pairing that has a track record for success. Also, it makes more sense from a genre point of view. SV and SPN are both along the action/adventure line. Teen Emo Vampires In Angst . . . well, no such dice. Whenever I catch the end of TVD, I want to tell them, look, kids. If you really want to know angst, go talk to the Winchesters, yeah?

Also, moving from Thursday night means powerhouse pressure is off. SPN has always held its own (relatively speaking) against the programming on the Big Three, and now being moved to Fridays, they'll have even less competition, yes?

I really don't mind the move. It will take some getting used to, but my genre TV has usually aired on Fridays. And I'll get to start watching CSI again.

[mtee.livejournal.com]

What will we be up against. Friday's usually aren't that strong. You are right, it could be a good time. It's just, people go out on Fridays.

Oh well, now we just have this long wait. Luckily, I have lots of RL things that will be going on this summer.. so I hope the time flies!

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

I looked up the fall TV line-up today, and rather than being up against Grey's Anatomy, CSI, Fringe, and The Office (all Thursday shows), SPN will now be up against Body of Proof (which is new), CSI:NY (which it's my understanding that's the lowest rated of the three?), The Good Guys (never heard of it), and Dateline NBC.

I think the move might actually help SPN's ratings.