Question for my F-Listies (and anyone else who wanders by)

[feliciakw]

NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT INCLUDE ACTUAL SPOILERS IN YOUR RESPONSE. I cannot stress this strongly enough. I am trying to remain as spoiler-free as possible (without completely leaving the Internet) until September 18. (Note to self: Stay away from TVGuide.com.) Here's my question:

For those of you who live for spoilers, who go hunting them down, who read the sides, who grasp at any and every spoiler as if it is a life preserver . . .

Has knowing the surprises and twists and turns and reveals of a show ever really enhanced your enjoyment of it?

The reason I ask is this: I've been watching YouTube vids of yesterday's SPN panel at SDCC. For the most part, I feel I came away minimally spoiled (yay!). Much of what was mentioned I read weeks ago (and promptly stopped reading spoilers), and some of it (like a guest casting mention and episode plot) was more like "coming attractions" than actual "spoilers." However, in one person's question, I learned something that doesn't really surprise me, but now I've lost the "Oh! Of course! That's awesome!" that I would have otherwise had when watching the season opener. Now this particular piece of information might not even be considered a spoiler to some folks. But I, now knowing to expect this piece of information, will miss out on the nifty-neato coolness of discovering it for myself (amidst all the angst).

So my question is . . . do you really enjoy the show more when you know what's going to happen? Do you worry for no reason when rumors or publicity prove to be misleading? Do you cope better with big reveals that disappoint when you know them ahead of time?

Because me? Half the fun of SPN is not knowing what's going to happen next. (Granted, this is a double edged sword, as not knowing also contributes to much viewer anxiety in the midst of the story arc. Of course, previous betrayals by various shows contributes to that, but I digress . . .) Some things I'm not surprised by, even if I'm not spoiled for them. (Dean's circumstances at the end of S3, for example. No surprise. Otoh, Don and Charlie's circumstances at the end of N3 last season? HUGE surprise. I was closer to tears for that one than for SPN, precisely because I did not see it coming.) But I would have been VASTLY disappointed if I'd been spoiled for the twist in "Mystery Spot," for example. Or if I'd known how S1 ended.

So I'm curious. If it does enhance the show, how so? If it doesn't, why do you spoil yourself?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Comments

[kimmer1227.livejournal.com]

I prefer not to look at spoilers. This is actually the most I've delved into spoilers. I broke down and read everything about the con, including the 5 minute preview. I don't look at sides, but will peek at discussions about sides. Once the season starts, I'll stop cold again. I really prefer that true element of surprise. Casting stuff doesn't bother me, most of the time.

I think I lose some of my enjoyment reading too much stuff. I tinkered a bit in other fandoms. For me, if I like what I read, I'm so excited about it, by the time it airs, I'm disappointed cos' I've built it up so much in my head. If I don't like what I read, then I dread it so much, I overanalyze and nitpick what actually airs. That's why I try to stay relatively spoiler free for SPN.

I actually have been more spoiled by the network promo department than any written spoiler. They showed Dean holding fallen Sam in the promo for AHBL I. They did the same for the S3 finale. They showed Sam holding fallen Dean. What the hell! I would probably have had a heart attack at the end of AHBL I, cos' I had NO idea they were killing Sammy. Maybe the network was looking out for my health.

[ficwriter1966.livejournal.com]

That's the thing - the network promo people love to use clips that they think will catch the most interest, even if they give away major plot points. That shot of Dean holding fallen Sam was the *key* shot of the episode - and it was in the stupid promos.

I have no willpower when it comes to spoilers. Now, if I were sitting down with a DVD set, having not seen the show before (which I've done with a number of shows), I wouldn't want to know what was coming up. I'd treat it like a book, and let it unspool bit by bit, over a relatively short period of time. Ditto with movies - I don't want to know what happens. Just tell me, is it worth my time and my $10. I *hate* reviews that outline 3/4 of the story!

But with shows I love? I am so excited about the whole thing that I'm, "Tell me MORE! Tell me more! Tell me now!!!" (Eleventy.) I want tidbits. I want to know who's coming and who's going. Is there a Christmas episode? Cool!! (Speaking of last year, so relax.) I don't like it when I know too much about the episode, so none of it seems fresh...but I just can't stop. (When I worked at ST:TNG, part of my responsibilities [!] was to watch the dailies with the other writers - so I basically saw the entire episode, out of order, repetitively, in chunks. Plus I'd read the scripts. So...zero surprise factor, by the time the episode aired. HATED that. 'Cause dammit, it was My Show!)

Does being spoiled enhance the experience for me? Yes, I guess so. I love finding out little nuggets of what's coming, because it helps fill those long gaps between seasons and episodes. I don't mind if it's things I don't think I'll like, because I can get used to them ahead of time. I know the entire opening 5 minutes of 4.01, but I'm cool with that - because on 9/18 I can SEE it, complete with music and FX, and enjoy the performances. I don't feel like it's "ruined" for me in any sense.

Do I worry for no reason? Of course. Worrying is my favorite pastime. If I have nothing to worry about, I'll make something up.

Did that help? :)

[kimmer1227.livejournal.com]

It's all YOUR fault I've been peaking at all! *points pointy pinky at Carol* Little goodies posted here and there. I'm stopping after this damn hiatus is over. I am! Probably...

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Is there a Christmas episode? Cool!! (Speaking of last year, so relax.)

See, this I do not consider a spoiler. Rather like knowing that they were going to do a "ghost hunters" episode (which I'd been saying for months that they needed to do). I'm kinda perturbed that I now know there's going to be a "time travel" ep . . . and who's going to be in it, but that's not a plot spoiler, just a coming attraction. It was TVGuide.com that had in big ol' headlines how the guest star was going to fit into the story, and that . . . well, I'll live with it, because again, not a huge plot spoiler, but no hopping on the couch with "Oooohhhhh!!!! It's Skinner!" from me.

And I know if I'd actually been at SDCC, I would have been totally cool and excited with seeing the rough cut, because, dude, how could you not? But not having *seen* it? I don't want to know until I can actually *see* it.

Thanks for answering! I'm just curious as to why people would want to be spoiled for a show that is, essentially, supposed to be based on suspense and surprise.

Of course, seeing something coming doesn't mean it still doesn't startle.

I took my cousin's daughter (my first cousin once removed, if you're keeping track) to see Psycho for the first time a few years ago. Big restored movie house, summer film festival. I told her nothing of the movie except that it was really good. She pooh-poohed it that it wasn't going to be scary. At various points in the movie, I'd lean over and ask, "You know what's going to happen, right?" You could tell from the camera angle and what was being shown on the screen.

"Yes," she'd say, a note of anxiety in her voice.

"It doesn't help, does it?" I asked, only slightly wickedly.

"No."

I don't know what that has to do with anything. I just love that story. :-)

[alphabet26.livejournal.com]

See, this I do not consider a spoiler.

I agree with you about this. I think that the SPN fandom--in general--can--at times--be waaaaaaaay too picky about what is a spoiler and what isn't. (Did I put in enough modifiers to not come off like a total witch? ;P) This is coming from the POV of someone who does like spoilers, but still. Knowing basics, like there's going to be a Christmas ep, is NOT a spoiler. Knowing that [whatever actor] will be in an episode is not a spoiler, either, to me. If I read a synopsis of DaLDoM that went Dean and Sam team up with Bela to try to save Bobby, I would not consider that to have spoiled anything about the episode. Knowing the basics /=not spoiling! If it said Dean faces up to his inner demons while dreamwalking...ooh. That's a little spoilery (more with hindsight than not, though, IMAO), so I could see someone being a little annoyed with that. If it went Dean lets out all his issues with his father as he wanders around the trappings of his own subconscious--hey, that's spoilery and not on, unless you're out trolling for spoilers.

I guess, for me, "spoilers" should be defined as something that's meant to be a surprise. We learn things over the course of an episode, of course, but some things are meant to shock and startle us, and others aren't. That Dean died over and over in MS wasn't hidden and wasn't supposed to be a surprise reveal. That he stayed dead and that it was the Trickster--that's the spoiler.

Okay, now that I've got my thoughts about yaoi out of the way (sorry about that!), onto your actual question.

I like knowing a lot about the basics of what's coming up. Where's the episode going to be? Who's guest starring? What's the MotW? So I'll look for those kinds of spoilers like crazy. But the big plot points...ooh. I don't mind knowing--if I click on site for mild spoilers and then I miss/disregard a warning and see a big spoiler, I'm not going to freak out.

But I actually like being part of the group that didn't know something. For example, I've always known that Darth Vader was Luke's father. Even when I had only the most basic idea of what Star Wars was, before I'd ever seen it, I knew that line, "Luke...I am your father." But there was a time when I didn't know that Snape killed Dumbledore. When I didn't know if Snape was a good guy or a bad guy. That's the exciting part to me. If I have kids, to them, "Snape killed Dumbledore!" will be one of those joke spoilers like "Darth's Luke's father" or "The Titanic sank." But it was a real shock for my fandom friends and me.

So, lots of mild spoilers, but not the big things. "Bobby faces up to his past" or "We learn more about Bobby's history" are okay. Maybe even "We learn that Bobby had a family and what happened to it" if I'm feeling like I want to know more. "Bobby killed his wife while she was possessed by a demon" is too much for me.

But if I miss an episode and all my friends are squeeing, I'll generally spoil myself hard core because I'll want to know what's going on. I want to share in the love and for me, there's nothing sadder than finally getting to see something a week later and you post about it/comment on your friends' LJs and all you get are three replies that are, "Yeah!" and "I know!" and that's it. D:

Wow, sorry about hitting that teal deer in your comments.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

I sort of agree, and sort of don't regarding guest casting (and MotW). Because in a show like SPN, where it's supposed to be based a lot on suspense and reveals, it gets tricky. Most of the stuff (esp. S1) is simple synopsis information. "The Boys face Bloody Mary/The Hookman/a wendigo/a haunted house." Is the casting "spoiler" of Rufus coming back actually a spoiler? For me, no. Would knowing the trickster was in "Mystery Spot" be a spoiler? Oh, yeah, because he's one of the plot twists and reveals. He was also the MotW. Actually, "Mystery Spot" works really well as an example of spoilers vs. non-spoilers, and what works if you know it ahead of time and what loses its punch.

Re: Star Wars . . . ah, you must be a young'un. I was raised on SW . . . in fact, for me there is no such thing as "Ep IV: A New Hope." That installment? Is simply Star Wars. If you talk about "the first SW" or "the first SW movie," that's the one I think of first. There was no Ep IV title when I first saw it, and it's only just now starting to look even a little normal to see it at the beginning of the scroll. The first time I realized it was supposed to be "A New Hope" was when Empire Strikes Back came out, and still, no one I knew called it by that title. But I digress.

After the reveal in ESB, I spent the next three years coming up with reasons why Darth was lying. Because yeah, that was a BIG reveal. My first argument is the same one I use against believing demons in SPN: he/she/they are evil. NEVER take what evil tells you at face value. Ever. Because there's always a catch.

Digression: if SPN is supposed to be "SW in rural America," then Sam, as Luke Skywalker, is going to have to face his dark side in order to save Han from being frozen in the hell of carbonite. Or something. ;-) Actually, he'll have to face his dark side in order to save his family . . . but you get the picture. /digression

Also? Children will now never know the chill of dread that crept up the spine when Darth took his first assisted breath in the Revenge of the Sith. Because for me? When I was growing up, that heavy, foreboding respiration was the harbinger of evil. And to hear it for the "first time" . . . *shiver*. But alas, everyone now knows that Darth is Luke's father, and Luke saves him.

Sharing squee is fun, but I don't do it on-line like I used to. And since I'm usually the first of my buds to see something (me being in the Eastern time zone and them being in the Pacific), I'm usually waiting for them to catch up to me. And I'm quite willing to share retro-squee. I can totally understand what you're saying about wanting to share in it while it's going on, though. But I guess for me, that deflates the experience all the way around because I cannot contribute to the squee until I have seen the ep, and my squee is much more squee-like if I don't know the reveals.

Thanks for joining in!

[alphabet26.livejournal.com]

Would knowing the trickster was in "Mystery Spot" be a spoiler? Oh, yeah, because he's one of the plot twists and reveals. He was also the MotW

I do get what you're saying, but,, at the same time, some people who are really good at that sort of thing and paying attention knew the Trickster was there simply because they remembered the actor's name. As soon as they saw it in the opening credits, they were gonna know, even if they had been spoiler free. So I honestly do get what you mean about casting spoilers, but it's not like everything has been ruined once you know someone's there. The Trickster was supposed to be a surprise, yeah, but the big surprise was the Dean-staying-dead, Sam-learning-a-lesson part. I can see them trying to downplay that actor being in the ep in order to help with the surprise, but knowing that he's there isn't going to ruin too much, because there's still a lot more besides that in the episode.

Opening credits are a huge problem for people who don't want to read casting spoilers and one reason I think it's kind of useless to avoid them. I mean, like, in "Long Distance Call"--you could have avoided everything, but within the first five minutes, you saw "Jeffrey Dean Morgan" and then bam! You were in exactly the same boat as the person who'd read the teaser that JDM was going to be back for one episode. Exactly what he'd be doing and how and all that was still unknown, so knowing that John would be there? Well, I can try to avoid that spoiler, but I'll still know it from the opening credits, so I'm not going to try too hard. JMO and YMMV and all that.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

And that's where I'm a little bit different. I don't usually pay much attention to the opening creds the first time I watch a show; I'm watching the action going on on screen. The Trickster happened to be one that I don't know the actor's name, so even if I had been paying attention, I wouldn't have known. (ficwriter1966 brought up this very point--recognizing the "twist" in the opening creds--in a previous conversation somewhere.) And by the time you get to the opening creds, you're watching the show, so I'd consider the opening creds to be part of the viewing experience, for good or ill.

I believe I'd heard casting spoilers on JDM, but even if I hadn't, it was in the previews (which for me, for the most part, are fair game--though it is annoying when previews give away major plot points), so no biggie there. I do recall that a lot of JDM fans, knowing that he was going to be "in" the ep, were vastly disappointed that it was just his voice. (You might say he phoned in his performance. *insert rimshot here*)

Yes, YMMV. :-) I just sometimes enjoy that little squeal of "Ooh! Ellen's going to be in this one!" Which right now is something I'm very much hoping for.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

I'm sooo glad I was unspoiled for all of SPN S1 & S2. Watched them straight through on DVD. When Sam got knifed? Gah!!!! And then Dean went and MADE THE DEAL!!!! Which I was so scared about him doing in Crossroad Blues. izhilzha can attest to my fretting over that after Crossroad Blues, and she didn't say a thing about AHBL. Gah!

And at the end of S1? I figured they were gonna have some sort of cliffie, but I totally did not see the semi-broadsiding-Impala coming. I just sat there stunned. The whole "That's just wrong!!!!" thing they had going. It's part of what makes TV so exciting to watch.

So, yeah, I'm with you on the not wanting to know too much. *nods*