Life, Fannishness, and Thespic Infatuation

See my reply to leelust below.

Dean would have liked to at least have had the chance to be there for Cas, if Cas had let him.

Because you should always talk to those whom you trust before you start (ideally, instead of) making deals with demons.

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cherrymmm.livejournal.com

You have a very valid and true point. From a human perspective. Cas isn't human though. He's always been a foot soldier doing what the was told until he met Sam and Dean. I don't think strategizing with Dean crossed his mind because it seems, his intent was to protect Dean from it all.

Thinking about what you said, Dean would have been a good person for Cas to confide in and seek counsel from. I'm really kindof heartbroken for all of them right now.

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Actually, yes. He could have talked to Dean. That was the whole point of the juxtaposition of Cas watching Dean, but going with Crowley. Dean helped defeat Mike and Lucifer. He killed Zach. He'd be no slouch in a battle against Raphael. If nothing else, Dean has a wonderfully strategic mind and is a resourceful tactician. He would have been a great resource in weighing other options.

In choosing Crowley over Dean, Cas did the same thing Sam did in choosing Ruby. The difference being, I think, that Cas knows there's a slippery slope there and weighed his options first, whereas Sam, not so much.

I can appreciate Cas wanting to let Dean live a life and retire from hunting. I love--and am yet heartache-y--that he tried to give Dean back that which Dean had lost in trying to bring Sam back.

But Cas made some poor choices here. And when Dean cut away all the ambiguities and laid it out for Cas, Cas even said, "You make is sound so simple when you put it like that. Where were you when I needed to hear it?" And Dean's reply, "I was here. Where were you?"

Dean would have helped his friend if his friend had asked. Dean would have been there for Cas if Cas had let him.

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Sorry, I quit. This whole season has been about nothing but hatred.

Sera Gamble feeds the "true fans" by killing off and making evil all the women characters because the Wincesters wil have no "stinking females" around.

This episode fed all those who hated the idea of Angels - and frankly, brings back feelings I had all fifth season; that Kripke was trying to kill all hope and faith.

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As a whole, I think the season has taken some interesting turns and explored (or tried to) some interesting things. Killing or writing off the female characters is a long and time honored tradition on the show, so I don't think Sera is catering to anyone in particular, at least not anymore than they have since the first half of the series.

And I'm reciting my PAL mantra--Previews Always Lie. What they showed us of Lisa could be totally misleading. Though it makes me more than a little nervous.

I've kind of given up on the whole angel thing. At the rate they're going, Castiel is the only character I'll ever like as an angel, and his moral dilemma is interesting from a believing standpoint, even if it is crazy-making from an belief-in-angels standpoint.

I'm afraid, though, that with Izhilzha and Kalquessa both gone from the fandom, there's no one left to talk me off the ledge come season cliffhanger. It's a lonely feeling.

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sarcasticval.livejournal.com

Izhilzha and Kalquessa both gone from the fandom

They are? Since when? Just behind, methinks.

by killing off and making evil all the women characters
Sorry to butt in, but I wanted to share my two cents. I have never understood this gripe. Yeah, the ladies die on Supernatural--but so do the men! Basically, if your name is not Sam, Dean, Bobby, or Cas make sure not to let the door hit ya on the way out. Also, in the six years that this show has been on the air I feel that so many more of the female characters have been given interesting and developed stories and arcs as compared to their male counterparts. How many fleshed-out ladies have been on this show? Ruby, Lilith, Ellen, Jo, Mary, Missouri, Ava, Pamela, Lisa, Cassie, Tessa, Lenore, Gwen, Madison, Bela, Anna, Meg, etc. And, yeah, most of them are dead, but with the current exception of Crowley and some angels in a pit, so are all of the recurring males.

To answer the question about Cas and Sam's soul, he didn't realize Sam came back without. There's a line in the voiceover where he's watching Sam at the window who is in turn watching Dean, and Cas talks about how sometimes we're given clues and he missed his--Sam turning away from Dean and going on his merry way was the clue Cas was talking about. He should have picked up on the fact that Sam would never have just left his brother like that, that should have been the inkling that something went wrong with his little fishing expedition.

Can I say how much I love the never ending hell line? Because dude.

Edited Date: 2011-05-07 06:02 am (UTC)

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To answer the question about Cas and Sam's soul, he didn't realize Sam came back without. There's a line in the voiceover where he's watching Sam at the window who is in turn watching Dean, and Cas talks about how sometimes we're given clues and he missed his

Yes! I remember that. Thank you. Oh, Cas.

They are? Since when? Just behind, methinks.

Well, you see and talk to them much more frequently than I do. (I haven't seen Izhi in almost 4 years, and I've never met Kalquessa in person.) Izhi and I used to talk every week, usually immediately after she'd seen the ep, and debrief for at least an hour. Kalquessa used to write her React-o-Matic posts. Neither of these things have happened in a very long time. Neither of them is on LJ as much as she used to be (with good RL reason, I know). I don't even remember the last time Izhi and I had a conversation about Show (can't remember the last time we talked on the phone, even), and though Kalquessa has tried to call, our schedules just don't seem to synch up where we can both be on the phone at the same time.

They might still be watching the show, but from where I am, on the other side of the continent, they're not in the on-line fandom anymore. I get why, and it's all for good reasons. I just miss having someone to talk through things with, who will help me work through things that annoy me. Who will talk me off the ledge. Ya know?

The never ending line Hell was very Far Side, wasn't it.

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I want to apologize. My first reaction was one of anger and hurt watching the episode and I had no business broadcasting those feelings on your journal.

I'm sorry. I hope you'll forgive me.

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Thank you. :-) I know this season has been very trying for a lot of people on my f-list. It's kind of why I've often considered giving up my longer commentaries. There are often things I want to mention in depth, but I get the sense that much of my f-list has lost interest and/or patience with the show.

You're forgiven. :-)

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If it's any consolation - I'll help catch you?

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I'm afraid, though, that with Izhilzha and Kalquessa both gone from the fandom, there's no one left to talk me off the ledge come season cliffhanger. It's a lonely feeling.

HEY. She's a mom and I'm engaged--it's a busy time. I'm not really participating in most fandom right now. It's not just SPN (although frankly, I've never really thought of myself as being "in" SPN online fandom--it's too weird, esp. compared to my other fandoms).

And I'm honestly far too thrilled with Cas's journey from a believer's viewpoint to mind anything Show's doing with him right now. In fact.... *hearts for eyes*

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Chica, I know you're both busy with very important RL stuff. I told Val as much. I was making an observation from where I'm sitting--on the other side of the continent.

And you might not have been "in" on-line fandom, but you wrote fic and wrote reviews (on-line fan activity), and on-line is how we primarily communicate.

It's not what they're doing with Cas that's bothering me, because yes, it's got very interesting ramifications from a believer's point of view, and I've been where Cas is (though not, obviously, to that magnitude)--doing something I know in my heart isn't right, and thinking I can control the situation, and having it end as painfully and disastrously as I feared.

When I wrote that, I was more freaked out about what it appears they're going to do to Lisa and Ben.

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It just kind of felt like you were dissing our RL, which really is kind of important at the moment. And I don't watch in real time anymore, because of the move to Fridays, etc, so...

I'm not overly worried about Lisa and Ben, but I don't know if you've been spoiled for stuff--I have not, really, so all I have is the preview, and as you said... PAL. :) We shall see!

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I was not dissing your RL. Of course weddings and babies are important. Of course they are, and always will be. That you would think that I was insulting that . . . I'm not sure what that says about me, if that's the conclusion you drew. I was expressing an observation and a lament I feel for something this is no longer. If that observation and lament offended you, I'm sorry. Because I lament the loss of something does not mean I begrudge you what you've gained. Your gain is more important than my loss, but that doesn't mean I don't feel it and miss what's missing.

I also misspoke in something I wrote in my reply to Val, and for that, I am deeply sorry and regretful.

I'll be watching the season enders with my mom next week. That should be interesting. :-)

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Oh, I'm sorry--I didn't mean to ask you to apologize or anything. :( I just was a little startled when I came to read this after catching up, and thought... "Well, I can do exactly zero about that right now, but that doesn't mean I don't still like the show" (and you), so I reacted a bit off-the-cuff.

You're allowed to miss us, of course (although that feels odd to write!). *hugs*

And I can't wait to see you in October.

Sometimes I wish I could watch SPN with my mom. But even though I've explained it to her, it would still be so far outside her comfort zone I can't even imagine. Ah well.

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gypsy-atavari.livejournal.com

I am not very active in posting on my LJ really but I really created it to write comments and such to folks - I'd be happy to chat with you about Show. I hardly have anyone to really talk it out with. :-)

I am still mulling things over about this ep - but I liked it for sure. Heartbreaking but I liked it. :-)

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I just might take you up on that. :-)

I actually liked last night's ep quite a bit myself, as stressful and crazy-making as it was. There's a lot to cogitate with Cas's actions, and how they'll affect his relationship with Dean, and Dean's relationship with him.

And of course Dean, having to deal again with a trusted ally lying to him and deceiving him. It's hard all around.

Plus, I'm forming some thoughts on the show and my love of Dean/Jensen vis-a-vis my previous fandom involvements. I might write about it at a later date.

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gypsy-atavari.livejournal.com

Please take me up on it. Hehe.

Supernatural is actually first ever TV show that really pulled me into fandom. In a vague sort of way I knew that fanfic existed because some of my friends actually wrote Buffy fanfic way back when it was still on but I just never got into it.

Then I think I mainlined Season 1 and just had to find out if they were going to be back for Season 2 and how long that would take and I discovered the stories to tide me over while waiting for the new episodes.

I actually tried to see if I would get into the other fandoms - Veronica Mars for one - but the writing in the other show's fandoms really didn't hold my attention as much as Supernatural's.

Anyway - sorry for just dumping that out.

For this last ep, I've decided that I'm going to wait until the last 2 play out so that I know how to properly feel about it. I like it still but I'm just not sure where that leaves Cas in the Winchester dynamics.

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Feel much better about the episode and here's why:

http://charis-kalos.livejournal.com/104389.html?view=859333&style=mine#t859333

charis_kalos is an Anglican vicar down in Australia.

Edited Date: 2011-05-08 10:48 am (UTC)

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Yes! Not exactly the route I'm taking with it, but definitely complementary to it.

Cas's dilemma I think is one of the reasons I actually liked the ep, as painful as it was. Doing the wrong thing for the right reason, and thinking you can control it, is something I can relate to. Not on this scale, obviously, but in principle, I've been there, done that, placed myself in a position I knew I shouldn't have but thinking I could control the outcome, and it turned out just as painfully disastrous as I suspected it would.

Yes, indeed, I've crossed paths with Charis on a couple of mutual friends' LJs.

Edited Date: 2011-05-08 12:34 pm (UTC)

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Not sure how helpful I'll be at talking people off ledges, because I adored this episode like I haven't adored one since "Point of No Return." *flails*

It's hard to watch, yes, but oh man, I didn't think Show could pull off a study of freedom like this with Cas. The fact that they're managing it and doing it with such...integrity?...kind of blows me away.

I mean, in a lot of ways our freedom really is about going to God, and asking for a sign... but in the end we have to choose. We even have to choose to see the signs God is already giving us. (DEAN, Cas. DEAN is your sign!)

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