A little worried (SPN - related)

[feliciakw]

Okay, so. In wandering around the 'Net this morning, I ran across something that . . . doesn't really surprise me. I found that Lisa is going to be what I think is the season finale. Well, since I've said all along that until there is a definitive break between Lisa and Dean there will always be the possibility that she can come back, I'm not surprised that she'll be back for one more episode.

But I've also been seeing spoilers here and there (before I can "move along, nothing to see here") that there are going to be two (yes, I've seen that specific number) unexpected deaths in the season finale. And I'm dreading that they will be Lisa and Ben. (Of course, the fact that I'm expecting it means that they aren't "unexpected," so maybe I'm wrong.) I know a lot of people want Dean to regress revert back to his womanizing, random hook-ups, and one-night stands. The only circumstances under which I can see that happening (regardless of what Jensen himself says. Man, would I like to sit down and talk character with him) is if Lisa is totally removed from the equation, either by death or by marriage.

I'm quite worried that Lisa and Ben will be killed off for the sake of convenience, with no greater purpose than to eliminate them from the story. I can see where the writers might think that the Dean/Lisa storyline needs definitive resolution, but I hope, I hope that they give their send-off meaning. Ellen and Jo might have died in a losing battle, but they died protecting their friends, and that's not nothing. If the writers do gank Lisa and Ben, I hope there's a better reason--a character developing, character revealing reason--than simply "we got bored with it. Let's get rid of them."

*deep breath*

Okay, just writing that out makes me feel better. But if it does happen, I warn you: Do not be surprised if I become sullen and/or cranky and/or ranty. I really kinda hate don't like that Dean can never be happy or fulfill his dreams.

Of course, if Dean and Sam cease to exist, none of this is a problem, right?

(Oh!!! And then the season opener next season would be something along the lines of It's a Wonderful Life. What would happen to the world if Sam and Dean were never born?)

Comments

[ann-tara.livejournal.com]

"We can't be in this with you." That's really vague.

I had a totally different reaction. ;) I didn't think the line "Me and Ben can't be in this with you," *hang-up* before Dean can say anything, left any room for interpretation. Remember, in the same goodbye speech Lisa says that as soon as Sam came back, "I knew it was over."

Which is why I found it so baffling that they did what amounted to an unnecessary retcon in that mannequin episode where suddenly we're led to believe Lisa turned around and started calling incessantly and Dean refused to take her calls. We never heard or saw any evidence of that, and if Dean was still pining, why didn't he pick up the phone? None of it made sense to me.

Plus, we know that not only was Lisa not happy to see Dean again anyway, she's got another steady beau on the line. I got the impression they only threw Lisa and Ben into that story because of questions they may have received as to whether Lisa and Ben were coming back. Despite the use of present tenses from Dean when he's working on the car at the end, we've never seen any evidence that Dean has thought about them at all since then.

I don't know, I was on board with the whole Lisa&Ben thing before the season started - I thought the producers were really going to do something with this. But it ended up being a go-nowhere d-plot at best that only sidelined Dean whenever it showed up. Plus, I found it really strange, and disappointing, that neither character - Dean or Lisa - ever used the word "love" to describe their relationship, or said "I love you" to each other.

It's not the scenario story that I wanted for Dean, especially since I get the impression Jensen wasn't thrilled with it, nor am I feeling it from Dean as a character. And I really wanted to. I remember one of Ben Edlund's press vids from Comic Con before the season started where he laughed off the notion of Dean being with Lisa and said it was a mistake because the Braedens were nothing more than a "rebound". I was shocked that was the attitude the producers had right from the start. So why did they bother in the first place?

Anyway, all that being said, to go back to your original point of the post, I still find it hard to believe they would kill off the Braedens. Not only would it be super-redundant ala the deaths of Mary and Jessica specifically, but it's more tricky to kill off a kid too. Yeah, they've killed off kids before, but not young children who were involved in any kind of family way with the Winchesters. I could be wrong, of course, but right now I'm not anticipating it. I think I could more easily believe a mind-wipe kind of thing to keep them safe, where they don't remember Dean after that, so it's like the relationship never happened. I don't know why I feel like that could happen, but it sort of goes along with your feeling about the Winchesters being erased from history.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Interesting. We saw very different things in the relationship. The way I see it, Jensen has always played that Dean wants to be with Lisa (maybe not Lisa specifically at first, but he's always wanted a steady, committed relationship with a woman. At least since the end of S2. Possibly as far back as S1, if Cassie hadn't dumped him again). He's not blissfully happy--how could he be--but he cares about Lisa and Ben deeply, and they care about him. I don't know if you've read any of my old posts on this, but I've never expected them to be in OMG!You!Complete!Me! love. But they've been through some really deep stuff together, and there's a bond.

While I would have liked to hear them say, "I love you," I'm not surprised that they didn't. Dean doesn't really come out and say things point-blank like that. And I can see him being reluctant to put it into words, particularly with his history of losing people he loves. But it shows in his actions.

I didn't find it particularly baffling that they brought Lisa and Ben back. Until they actually say, in no uncertain terms, that it's completely over, leaving no opening whatsoever, I'm of the opinion that there's always a chance. For me, the truth spell conversation seemed pretty real and natural. Lisa didn't say anything I didn't already suspect or know, and none of it said to me that the door was closed, never to be opened again.

Lisa did a pretty good job of explaining her reaction to Dean's sudden appearance at her door in "Mannequin," and "I'm trying to get over you," is as much as saying "I'm in love with you." Which apparently came as new information to Dean. Basically, Matt was a rebound, a distraction, an attempt to move on from Dean. But I get the impression that ever since Dean showed up in TKAA (and saved her and Ben's lives), she's been in love with him. I didn't see M3 as a retcon . Lisa is in love with Dean, that's never been a secret, and it makes sense to me that even though she hung up on him, she'd cool down and try to call him.

Poor Lisa, in love with a man who can't give her the quiet, safe life she wants.

Neither was I surprised that Dean had almost called her back many times. We saw that in the first half of the season, how he'd scroll to her number on his phone, but not hit dial. What I did want to smack him upside the head for was not picking up her call. But again, I can see why he wouldn't, in that it would make him vulnerable, and he doesn't think he's good enough for them.

People who love each other not communicating with each other is very realistic. And not talking about it is practically SOP for the Winchesters.

I'm glad I didn't hear Ben Edlund's comments on the topic. I try not to read or listen to writer interviews and comments until I've seen the finished product. Because what they say and what ends up on my TV screen aren't always the same thing.

Regarding Jensen's thoughts on the matter, I'd be so very interested to talk to him about this. I know he had issues with playing "softer," which I though he handled beautifully and found a perfect balance. He also said (at the end of S5) that he would like to play something along the lines of the guy in The Hurt Locker, when he came home from Iraq and couldn't find his place. That's precisely what they were doing with Dean at the beginning of the season, with Dean having better results than the dude in HL. I'd be interested to know what he thought specifically of playing opposite Cindy Sampson. I'd like to tell him that I loved seeing this side of Dean, and seeing Dean in such different circumstances.

I suppose I should just get used to the fact that "no one" likes Dean with Lisa and Ben. It's very disheartening for me, and I'm apparently seeing deeper layers there that no one else sees.

Oh, and don't even get me started on the memory-wipe. I cried my eyes out for 20 minutes at the end of the Dr. Who season where they did that to my favorite character. I don't know if my heart could take the memory of Dean being wiped from the minds of people he loves.

We'll just have to wait and see. Just writing all this out has made me feel better about it.

(I hope this post makes sense. I've been multitasking while writing it.)