Snape-y thoughts

[feliciakw]

Here's the deal. I'm not reading anything about HP except the books themselves (finished a re-read of HBP yesterday). No articles on the book, no spoilers, no essays, no nuthin'. I want to come at HP7 as fresh and unspoiled as I possibly can. That said, I do indeed have my own thoughts--unsophisticated though they might be--on the book.



Snape: I think Snape is good . . . with a caveat. I do not think Snape is Good. I think Snape is a Slytherin (in spirit; I'm not saying I think he's an actual descendant . . . although . . .). One of the most defining characteristics of a Slytherin is that s/he looks out for himself/herself first.

Exhibit A: Slughorn. Not an evil character. Sided with Dumbledore. But why? Because he saw how advantageous to himself it was to do so. Does that mean he wasn't loyal to Dumbledore? No. But given the choice between living in hiding or coming out on Dumbledore's side, it took some heavy duty persuasion--pointing out how he, Slughorn, would be better off with Dumbledore than on his own--to convince him. He rejected the option of joining the forces of evil, but it took persuading for him to opening join the forces of good.

Exhibit B: Phineas Nigellus' conversation with Harry in OotP, when he tells Harry that given the choice, a Slytherin will choose to save his own neck. This, I believe, is why Snape joined up with Dumbledore. Snape saw, at some point, that staying with Voldemort would not gain him anything, would not be in Snape's best interest, would, in fact, make him oppressed and subservient, whereas with Dumbledore, he wouldn't have to live in fear of those who had authority over him and could openly disagree with him.

This is why I think Snape chose to join Dumbledore. It has occurred to me as well that the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape implicitly is because Snape saved his life at some point, but that's just wild speculation. Or it could be that Dumbledore saved Snape's life, at great risk to his own. This also might engender loyalty in Snape.

As for Snape's treatment of his students . . . some of his ploys and antics are simply cruel and meanspirited. One need not actually like a student to refrain from verbally humiliating him or her. He is petty in that he allows his hatred for Harry's parents to affect how he teaches Harry.

I do think it would be interesting for Harry to acknowledge how much he learned from Snape when he didn't know Snape was teaching him.

Those are my rambly thoughts. YMMV.

Comments

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

I find your thoughts interesting, since I have been pondering Snape a lot, ever since I started reading this series and especially since HBP came out. While I think your theory here--that Snape, as a Slytherin and based on what we've seen of him to date, is operating from a basis of enlightened self-interest--is a decent one, I would like to raise one point.

We've seen people behaving in ways that would not fit with their House before: Pettigrew, a Gryffindor, behaves with utterly despicable cowardice. If R.A.B. (Mr. "Haha Voldie I killed your Horcrux") turns out to be Regulus Black, then we'll have a counter-example: a Slytherin who deliberately and clearly without thought for himself took on Voldemort, sacrificing himself for the greater good.

It's not out of the question that Snape did exactly what Dumbledore says he did in Goblet: "turned against Voldemort at the height of his powers, at great personal risk." Doesn't quite sound like enlightened self-interest to me...although I imagine that did play a part in it.

I imagine that Dumbledore's reason for trusting Snape is really a very valid one, and I'm looking forward to finding out what it was.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Apologies, Sarah, that you'll get this twice. I decided that it was just silly for me to have a comment in my own LJ that was anonymous. Humph.

Pettigrew, a Gryffindor, behaves with utterly despicable cowardice.

Which makes one wonder if he mightn't display some eleventh-hour heroics worthy of his House?

If R.A.B. (Mr. "Haha Voldie I killed your Horcrux")

So, if this were a cat macro would it be "i is in ur basin killin ur horcrux"?

turns out to be Regulus Black, then we'll have a counter-example: a Slytherin who deliberately and clearly without thought for himself took on Voldemort, sacrificing himself for the greater good.

This might well be the case, but Regulus served Voldemort, just shy of becoming a Death Eater, iirc. Sacrificing himself for the greater good could have been the result of wanting revenge upon Voldemort for some hideous reason. It might not have been to serve the greater good at all; it might have been a Slytherin interpretation of pride. "You bested me, but I get the last laugh." Though service to the greater good is, indeed, an end result.

I'm just talking off the cuff here. I'm not committing myself to one theory or another. It wouldn't surprise me much if Regulus had "seen the light"--if indeed he is RAB--and tried to make amends by destroying the Horcrux (if, indeed, it has been destroyed). Or, he might have been a Slytherin along the lines of Slughorn, going along with a powerful person until he indeed saw how truly evil he was.

Isn't "indeed" a useful word?

It's not out of the question that Snape did exactly what Dumbledore says he did in Goblet: "turned against Voldemort at the height of his powers, at great personal risk." Doesn't quite sound like enlightened self-interest to me

Depends on how you look at it, I suppose. I do believe Dumbledore is telling the truth here. However, "at great personal risk" can be somewhat relative. He might have turned against Voldie "at great personal risk" because to remain with Voldie would have been a greater personal risk.

Regardless, I'm very interested to see how this plays out. Part of me, admittedly, hopes that Snape isn't all "shiny happy potions master" at the end, though a different part of me would like to see him soften up and lighten up some. I'm not saying he and Harry should be bestest buddies when the dust clears, but a civil word and handshake would not go amiss.

But part of me says that so many people want Snape to be good, and it seems almost obvious that he is, that part of me says he . . . isn't. Not with a capital "G."

So, why is this a theme right now? Snape and Colby . . . mean and nasty might turn good and trustworthy, while good and trustworthy is revealed to be traitor. How are we supposed to survive the summer?

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

Pettigrew, a Gryffindor, behaves with utterly despicable cowardice.

Which makes one wonder if he mightn't display some eleventh-hour heroics worthy of his House?

:-) I'm certainly not ruling it out.

(Mr. "Haha Voldie I killed your Horcrux")

So, if this were a cat macro would it be "i is in ur basin killin ur horcrux"?

LOL! There has to be an image somewhere of a cat dipping into a birdbath...overlay it with green...and add text! :-D

This might well be the case, but Regulus served Voldemort, just shy of becoming a Death Eater, iirc. Sacrificing himself for the greater good could have been the result of wanting revenge upon Voldemort for some hideous reason.

That's a possibility I'm willing to consider. I'm willing to consider that to be part of Snape's motivation, too; especially if he really did regret the Potter's deaths (okay, Lily's) as much as Dumbledore implies.

It might not have been to serve the greater good at all; it might have been a Slytherin interpretation of pride. "You bested me, but I get the last laugh."

Weirdly enough, that strikes me as a Gryffindor interpretation of pride: no need to have the deed known by anyone but the self, and winning out over the opponent. Mind you, I think Slytherin House and Gryffindor House have some things in common, and this might be one.

I'm not committing myself to one theory or another.

Goodness, me either--I'm convinced Snape is Good, but I've no real idea of the reasons behind that.

Regardless, I'm very interested to see how this plays out. Part of me, admittedly, hopes that Snape isn't all "shiny happy potions master" at the end

I seriously doubt that. Even if he does survive the series (which I'm not sure he will), I don't think Snape's pettiness and so forth is all an act. He's a very damaged man.

I'm not saying he and Harry should be bestest buddies when the dust clears, but a civil word and handshake would not go amiss.

I'd like that myself, especially after HBP and the Potions book. But part of me is just crossing my fingers that Harry won't kill Snape and *then* find out he was on the side of light.... *facepalm*

So, why is this a theme right now? Snape and Colby . . . mean and nasty might turn good and trustworthy, while good and trustworthy is revealed to be traitor. How are we supposed to survive the summer?

I don't know! Gah! It's weird. I've been thinking way too much about betrayal and trust and choices and.... *shudder* At least we'll know about Snape in a few days. Colby, we'll have to wait for.... *sigh*

I love my fandoms. :-)