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feliciakwThis is another ep (or combo of eps, as the case may be) that has had umpteen bajillion things written about it, and I'm sure I couldn't really say anything that hasn't already been said. It's a great season-ender and breaks my heart every freakin' time.
I do, however, think that fitting this part of the mytharc with what we got in S5 is very problematic because it brings up some questions that are kind of funky. Was YED's goal ultimately to free Lucifer, or did he have his own agenda in choosing the leader of the demon army? Did he know that Sam was to be Lucifer's vessel, and was that why he was setting up Sam as the leader? If so, why go through all the rigmarole of the psy!kids?
And here's the kicker: Jake had a sister. Were Jake and his sister equally capable as Sam and Dean to be the vessels for Lucifer and Michael? Did Ava have a sibling? Andy had a twin; would Anson have been Lucifer's vessel, while Andy would have been Michael's? What about Max Miller? No sibling was mentioned with him.
Was Dean's deal a fortuitous opportunity for Lilith, Ruby, et. al.? What would have happened to the grand scheme had Dean not made the deal? Had the demons been working on him from the start, feeding his self-doubt as an ace up the sleeve should anything go wrong and Sam wasn't the winner?
How does the power vacuum left by YED's death fit into all of this?
Am I over-thinking this?
This then brings us to the fact that Kripke's original plan did no contain angels. At this point in the series, I'm of the understanding that he said he would not be including angels in his mytharc. So. What this means is that his original plan could not have included the showdown between Lucifer and Michael because the angels v. demons part of the mytharc was not the intent. So while the original intent might well have been to have Sam turn evil and then redeem himself by sacrificing himself to save the world, the whole Apocalypse thing as we got it? Not part of the original plan.
And I'll get into that a little more when we get into S3.
I'm trying to figure out exactly when things started to fall apart or get hinky with the mytharc. At this point, I strongly suspect that it was with the writer's strike in S3. That strike cut their season short by 6 eps, and had they had those 6 eps to work with, I kind of wonder what we would have gotten that they had to truncate or re-write or omit completely.
Anyway, it's at this point--with Sam's death and Dean's deal, and Sam lying about what YED showed him--that things start to really unravel.
I do, however, think that fitting this part of the mytharc with what we got in S5 is very problematic because it brings up some questions that are kind of funky. Was YED's goal ultimately to free Lucifer, or did he have his own agenda in choosing the leader of the demon army? Did he know that Sam was to be Lucifer's vessel, and was that why he was setting up Sam as the leader? If so, why go through all the rigmarole of the psy!kids?
And here's the kicker: Jake had a sister. Were Jake and his sister equally capable as Sam and Dean to be the vessels for Lucifer and Michael? Did Ava have a sibling? Andy had a twin; would Anson have been Lucifer's vessel, while Andy would have been Michael's? What about Max Miller? No sibling was mentioned with him.
Was Dean's deal a fortuitous opportunity for Lilith, Ruby, et. al.? What would have happened to the grand scheme had Dean not made the deal? Had the demons been working on him from the start, feeding his self-doubt as an ace up the sleeve should anything go wrong and Sam wasn't the winner?
How does the power vacuum left by YED's death fit into all of this?
Am I over-thinking this?
This then brings us to the fact that Kripke's original plan did no contain angels. At this point in the series, I'm of the understanding that he said he would not be including angels in his mytharc. So. What this means is that his original plan could not have included the showdown between Lucifer and Michael because the angels v. demons part of the mytharc was not the intent. So while the original intent might well have been to have Sam turn evil and then redeem himself by sacrificing himself to save the world, the whole Apocalypse thing as we got it? Not part of the original plan.
And I'll get into that a little more when we get into S3.
I'm trying to figure out exactly when things started to fall apart or get hinky with the mytharc. At this point, I strongly suspect that it was with the writer's strike in S3. That strike cut their season short by 6 eps, and had they had those 6 eps to work with, I kind of wonder what we would have gotten that they had to truncate or re-write or omit completely.
Anyway, it's at this point--with Sam's death and Dean's deal, and Sam lying about what YED showed him--that things start to really unravel.
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Date: 2010-07-13 04:56 pm (UTC)Yes and no, I'd say. All the questions you raise are valid. But I think the reality is, they had the YED psy!kids plot pretty well worked out and it could have ended nice and neat with his death. Dean selling his soul gives them a new plot device to work through in the third season (writers strike mucked that up, sadly)
4th Season with the Seals Breaking another great plot device. It still all ties nicely with the YED's original plan to use psychic children to open the gates of Hell, start the Apocalypse in some way. Lucifer tells Azazel to seek out strong parents for strong kids in Lucifer Rising.... not "Hey Buddy, go get my one true vessel ready with a demonic V8... Here's the address! P.S. his brother will be Michael's one true vessel... feel free to chuck that little mop haired twerp out the window!"
Where it all seems to have unraveled is in season 5 itself with the whole vessel deally. I think they really did bite off more than they could chew with the announcing that Dean was Michael's "sword" and that Sam was Lucifer's meat suit. To justify that, they went overboard stating that they were chosen from the beginning of time, going back to Cain and Abel (which makes NO sense) and that it HAD to be them... Because they didn't follow through with their own Myth. (Baby Ghoul Chow became Michael's vessel)
It doesn't match at all with the psy!kids story line. Jake and the Gang become completely irrelevant. And it's a shame. The vessel's thing could have been made so much simpler. It could have been Michael WANTED Dean as his vessel because of his strength of character and the fact he'd literally been through Hell and back and therefore was built Ford(Chevy!) tough. Lucifer WANTED Sam as his vessel because he was his favorite psy!kid and.... by golly those ABS! The Prince of Darkness is too lazy to do his own crunches!
That still would have worked, and it wouldn't have complicated matters with the whole bloodline which made no sense. Michael and Lucifer could have spent the 5th Season courting the boys in various ways. Sam still could have come up with his brilliant "say yes and then jump in a hole" plan and Dean may have said "yes" to make sure HE was the one to deal with Samifer. If they were sure of having a 6th Season, it still would have worked. No 6th Season, Samifer jumps in the hole, Dean mourns but goes on with life. 6th Season approved, they dunk Samifer down the hole but Dechael dives in saving Sam and leaving Luci to rot in the Pit. No confusion, no retconning... no need to bring back Baby Ghoul Chow (And nothing against Adam, but he was devoured and creamated.... it's really a stretch even for a supernatural show)
But again, they came up with a new myth and worked too damn hard to justify it- ignoring everything they'd established before. So, if you think too hard to make it match with what came before- really it's not you. They over thought the NEW myth and didn't think enough to make it match the old. Best to chalk it up to the writers probably spending too much time at the drawing board, very probably drinking too much Moutain Dew and having too much bad take out. That's my take on it anyway!
no subject
Date: 2010-07-13 09:19 pm (UTC)S1: Dad is missing. Find Dad.
End of S1: Dad found, but YED nearly kills Dad and Dean, and Dean and the Impala are left on life support while YED is running free.
S2: Kill YED.
End of S2: YED killed, but Dean is going to Hell.
S3: Save Dean from going to Hell.
End of S3: Failed to save Dean from Hell; Dean goes to Hell.
S4: Dean rescued from Hell, but Lilith is breaking seals.
End of S4: Fails to stop Lilith; Lucifer set free.
S5: Stop Lucifer and Apocalypse.
End of S5: Apocalypse stopped, but Sammy in the abyss.
So it's a steady progression of increasingly back situations.
So when I said that Dean's deal is where it starts to unravel, I meant for the Winchesters. Up until then, they were doing pretty good at the damage control.
no subject
Date: 2010-07-13 05:05 pm (UTC)It was such a great set up to the 3rd Season. It ended the major story arc they'd had going, yet left the viewers with a new one of how to deal with Dean's deal. Just awesome TV! See they had it in them to make awesomeness. They just overshot their vision this past Season. I still wuv them, though (Them being the writers/producers etc.) :-)!
p.s. Pardon my over posting, I am all alone at work today and... *sniff* lonely.