SPN - 8.11

[feliciakw]

Robbie Thompson, what the frell are you smoking this season?

So much potential, wasted.

What I liked:

Ep-long shout-out to the SCA Pennsic. I'm not involved myself, but back when I was in the Herc fandom, several of my list-sibs were. I'd be curious to know how many SCAers were extras in this ep. Society for Creative Anachronism

The "hold" and "resume." Very theatrical (as in, a practice that I've seen used in theater, particularly outdoor plays I've been in, where the amphitheater is close to a railroad track).

Princess Bride shout-out! \o/

Dean having fun.

Dean and Charlie strategizing on the war map. (That was quite awesome and amusing, tbh.)

ETA: GLuisa pointed out Smart!Dean. I love me some Smart!Dean. One of my favorite flavors of Dean. So, yes. It was a delight to see him. /ETA

The Braveheart speech. And Dean getting to lead the charge! Dean, always the leader, even in games of LARPing.

Where the ep fell short (really, really short):

Dean has a history with fairies. There was a real fairy in this ep. And yet, no connection was made. That would have made for an interesting episode.

Okay, we get it. Sam made a huge sacrifice and Dean appreciates it. (Their final conversation cut out on me, so I'll have to wait for the download to hear it). Can we now acknowledge the sacrifices Dean has made? Please? (I'm still holding out hope that we will get that in a separate episode.)

I won't even mention the whole rehash of the text message.

Robbie. Dude. I expect better from you. Slash Fiction was a great episode (except that Jensen and Jared had to re-write the final scene to keep it in character. That's a hint, btw). And you followed it up with "Time After Time." I even liked "Girl with the Dungeons and Dragons Tattoo." Then you give us "Bitten"? And now this? I'm thinking we need to leave the "crack" episodes to Ben Edlund. And I won't even get into the redundancy of your jokes, other than to say they don't read as natural or organic. Just forced and unnecessary. And not funny. Let it go, already.

Overall, my biggest disappointment with this ep was the waste of potential, and certain aspects that come across as forced rather than organic. There were bits and pieces that I liked, that amused me, and Jensen looked fantastic as usual. Heck, I even liked his war paint.

But overall, the theme of this ep, for me, is the sad, sad waste of potential.

Is Edlund writing anything this season?

Comments

[gluisa88.livejournal.com]

Per usual, I agree with everything you said!

It really annoyed me when Charlie said that line about Sam losing his shot at normal/happiness because of Dean.

It kind of left me speechless. Like, how?

Anyhow.

And I was displeased by the general cheesiness/bad writing. And that scene with Charlie and the Fairy- that made me cringe. Like, why was she hiding behind that skull? It made no sense! And the scene where the fairy revealed what was going on- the whole pacing of that was off- it felt very forced.

I did like that end scene. It took me a moment to realize that it was Dean wearing the wig. I liked it in an OMG this is hilarious! kind of way but none of the episode really felt like Supernatural, if you know what I mean.

And I don't care how nerdy the writers keep trying to make Dean- I honestly can't see him being into the whole larping thing. It felt very OOC.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

LARPing, no. Swords, armor, battle strategies, pretty wenches and handmaidens? Yes.

I loved when he picked up the sword and commented on the balance. Dean is a warrior, and he knows his weapons. (Remember when he tried to pull "Excalibur" out of the stone? Hee!)

You know? I liked Charlie for one episode, and maybe if they hadn't been so in-your-face with her in this episode, I might have liked her here, too. I mean, why weren't there any girls (whether wenches or maidens) winking at Dean? Sam was certainly getting his share of attention in the tech tent.

Why be so blatant about making Charlie the "hero"? I know Robbie Thompson created the character, and therefore she's special to him. But--and I've never said this before--I felt like Dean was a prop for the character in this ep. And you have no idea how it pains me to say that, because Dean was being a side of Dean I haven't seen in a long time in this ep. Maybe I'll change my mind on the re-watch, and goodness knows that re-watching Dean will not be a chore, but at first blush? Really not impressed with the writing on this one.

And I think it does come down to the cheap jokes and in-your-face with Charlie. It didn't feel organic, and even the humor eps need to be organic. And the scolding of Dean. We get it already. Now it's Dean's turn for some emotional validation.

Love the premise of the ep, but right now I'm quite disappointed with the execution.

[gluisa88.livejournal.com]

Yes. I have nothing to add, just yes.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

After having re-watched some scenes, I'm going to revise my "prop" statement. While the central focus being on Charlie annoys me a bit (I don't dislike the character per se, just the focus in this ep), Dean was at his strong big brother best with her, I think. I can see them developing that kind of relationship.

Dean was the leader in this ep, reading the victims, acting as protector, and letting his childlike glee show a little.

I can actually see him being amused with LARPing--as long as it doesn't involve his real life (ala the Supernatural books fandom). The raucous feasting of medieval days, the knights and ladies fair (and bar wenches), the pretending (which they do a freakin' lot of). I can't see him getting into it as a regular thing, but just to have fun for a weekend, yeah, I can see that.

I have a feeling that this will be an ep that--provided I ignore what annoyed me--will have quite a few redeeming qualities, thanks to Dean and Jensen. (Did I mention he looked really good?)

I'll probably address some of this on re-watch, because there's actually some stuff to chew on with this ep. Then again, I might not get to do it justice, because I've got a busy weekend ahead.

[sarcasticval.livejournal.com]

And the scolding of Dean. We get it already.

We may get it as an audience, but that doesn't mean that what Dean did wasn't a shitty thing, and I think it's important for him to hear that from someone that isn't his brother/the very person he screwed over. Outside perspective and all that. Also, what, this is the second time it's been mentioned by someone? I hardly think that's overkill.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Oh, I very much agree with Dean when he says it wasn't his finest hour. He knows it was a low blow. I was a little twitchy when he pulled that move, even though I know why he did it. Desperate times call for desperate measures and all that. It's Charlie's blaming Dean for denying Sam his chance at normal, which is demonstrably not the case, that doesn't jibe.

Dean gave Sam an open door to walk away; he actually told Sam to go back to Amelia. But now Charlie is calling Dean on ruining Sam's chance at normal, when it wasn't the text message that did that. Sam walked away from Amelia before he even knew Dean was alive. Then the text message instigates the opportunity to be with her (and in the process, break up her marriage, if Sam chooses), and Sam walks away again. So for Charlie to say that Dean ruined Sam's chances at normal, yes, her outside perspective is apparent, because she doesn't know what she's talking about in that regard.

You know?

[sarcasticval.livejournal.com]

Sam walked away from Amelia before he even knew Dean was alive.

He did? I thought the entire reason he left was because Dean came back. Wasn't he sharing a bed with her and the dog in the premiere, got a call or something, then bolted? (It's quite possible that I'm not remembering this right.)

Edit: Random addition--I think ruin is a pretty strong word. To me Charlie's comment was more an observation on the extremely codependent relationship that the brothers have, not that Dean won't let Sam have nice things.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Sam got up and left in the night, and went to Rufus's cabin.

Dean said that he was surprised Sam came, because he felt like he was leaving messages in the wind. Sam wasn't answering his phones. Sam informed him that it was because he turned all his phones off. So, as I understand it, Sam did not know that Dean was back, and he was not expecting to find Dean at the cabin. He left Amelia after facing Don in the bar. My supposition is that he decided to go to Rufus's cabin to regroup and decide where to go from there.

And surprise, surprise, there was Dean!

I also assume that the shadowy figure watching Amelia's house when Sam left was Don. It's all kind of vague, and they haven't really revisited the timeline of events, but that's my understanding.

So the way I read the timeline is this:

Don confronts Sam in the bar. Sam goes back to the house and packs his bags. He sticks around for the evening/night, and leaves Amelia in the bed (she doesn't seem surprised to watch him go).

Meanwhile, Dean has been leaving messages on cell phones that have been turned off, and Sam has not been receiving.

Dean goes to the cabin, not knowing whether or not Sam will come. Sam goes to the cabin, unaware that Dean is back. So Dean was hoping for Sam to show up, but Sam did not expect Dean to be there.

From what I've read, I think a lot of people are puzzled by the series of events. This is the best I've been able to suss out.

Re: the conversation with Charlie . . . You're right that she didn't use the word "ruin." But she says that Sam "found some normalcy with his chick, and now it's gone, again, thanks to you." That sounds to me like she's saying it's Dean's fault Sam lost his chance at normalcy with Amelia. It just doesn't sit well with me. However, she is also perceptive enough to realize that Dean has lost something, too, which thus far, in this ep, Sam seems unaware of, or only vaguely aware of at most.

[ficwriter1966.livejournal.com]

*sighs*

Sounds like I didn't miss much. I've been reading the comments around LJ, and at TWoP, and it's very noticeable how ANGRY people are. They may be gathering some new fans from the younger crowd, but with another dozen episodes to go this season? Seems like most of the original fans will find a reason to be somewhere else. (I watched "Bunheads" on OnDemand.)

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

I was thinking about it, and I think, along with the new viewers factor, writers like Robbie Thompson are 3rd, if not 4th, generation writers to the show. Meaning we've gone through 2 or 3 batches of writers before them. First gen writers would have been Kripke, Gamble, Tucker, Shiban, Edlund (I think he joined in S1), etc. Second gen writers would be like Carver (I think). Now we've got writers who weren't around when the characters were being established in both the course of the writing and the course of the actors' developing the character. They've become something of a reflection of themselves, rather than their real selves, except that you've got actors who are very loyal and protective of the characters and try to keep them true to their real selves. Same could be said of show, I think. It's become a reflection of itself rather than its true self.

The problem being that Carver was with the show, iirc, in S3. He was there for some of the the key development of these characters. So I'm not sure what's up with that.

Geo also informed me during the course of our conversation of the above that he's not seen Edlund's name on the show this season. This makes me sad, as he is the last of the 1st gen writers that I can think of who is/was still with the show.

I'm not particularly angry with the show, and I'll stick with it because I'm still invested in the characters. And yes, I've always been something of a hopefully patient person, hoping that if I wait long enough, my patience will be rewarded. So we'll see if anything happens in that regard.

I'm just really frustrated at the potential that's been wasted over the years, particularly for Dean's character.

[gluisa88.livejournal.com]

I believe Edlund wrote... brain glitch... the vampirate episode. Can't remember the name of it.

I believe he also wrote one other but I can't remember which one.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Yes, according to IMDb, he wrote "Blood Brothers" (aka Vampirates), and has one coming up. He's also being listed as "consulting producer," which, I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds like he's not as involved as he was.

I'm beginning to think that's part of the issue with the shift in depth and tone for the show--that we're losing, or more likely have already lost, all the writers and most of the producers who originated the series. We're now getting 2nd, 3rd, and maybe even 4th generation producers/writers, who are shaping the show to be something . . . else.

Just a theory, but there ya go.

[sarcasticval.livejournal.com]

I've been reading the comments around LJ, and at TWoP, and it's very noticeable how ANGRY people are.

Wow, really? I loved this episode, so of course everyone else must have hated it! ;) Seriously, though, I thought it was fun and adorable and actually laughed out loud at moments. It's my favorite one of the season so far.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

I've re-watched it, and ignoring the stuff I didn't like, it does have several gem-like moments, and actually is quite fun. I'll probably write in more detail about that (with a little bit about what I didn't really like about the conversation, as I talk about up-thread) later.

[amazed11.livejournal.com]

Add me as another who loved this episode. Our own perceptions will always colour how we as individuals react to what is being portrayed and that has been fascinating for me when reading some of the reviews out there. Very diverse!

I loved the brother/sister vibe from Dean and Charlie and to me it felt like Charlie was paraphrasing back to Dean the information Dean himself had provided. (Given the same circumstance, I suspect Dean would do exactly the same again, it was a means to an end and it served the dual purpose of keeping both Sam and Benny alive. Removing the blame game and seeing from the perspective of not right, not wrong, just is, makes it easier to see Sam & Dean not just Sam OR Dean for me.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

I think the brother/sister vibe is one of the things I really liked about Dean and Charlie's interaction. Connecting it back to Dean's comment the last time about "She's like the little sister I never wanted," I can see that type of relationship developing. Though I'd like to see them give her a little more depth and maybe integrate her a little more seamlessly next time, if there is a next time.

Charlie is getting the story from only one perspective and heavily edited (I doubt Dean told her details about Purgatory and Benny and Martin and Elizabeth and vampire nests and all). I think it's the way the conversation is presented--text message leads to Sam's loss of (married) girlfriend (does Dean even know about Don?)--that doesn't sit well. Charlie only knows that Dean sent the fake text message, and Sam "lost" his chance with Amelia, and she seems to be drawing a conclusion of causality. Not playing the blame game is a little difficult when the show has been playing it for so long.