I've officially stopped watching. I sort of half-watched the first 20 minutes, then said to myself, "I SO don't care any more," and turned it off so I could read for a while. I think Kevin's death was the last straw, particularly coming after Sarah's death.
This isn't the show I loved, AT ALL. It's ridiculously repetitive, tramples all over its own canon, is completely dismissive of good supporting characters... it's just crap. So I'm out, and I'm going to pretend it was cancelled at the end of last season - when really, it should have been cancelled at the end of S5.
It isn't the show it was. I miss the show that it was. But I still enjoy watching it (though I don't re-watch stuff like I used to). I still enjoy Jensen's work, I still want to know what's going to happen with Dean and Sam. I'm much less invested than I was (fic-wise, discussion-wise, etc.), so I don't track the canon errors anymore, not like I probably would have, anyway. The repetitiveness gets annoying, but I still like watching the show.
The end-of-episode cliffhanger was such that if I had the next episode available, I would have watched it. For me, that's a good thing.
I figure I can find out what happened, just by checking in on my Friends page. That eliminates the frustration of actually spending an hour wading through an episode. I enjoy Jensen's work too, but it's gotten to the point where there's nothing new (in a positive sense) to be added to my headcanon for Dean Winchester, and I can't see spending an hour of my time watching somebody suffer. The show doesn't seem to have any sense that Dean will eventually WIN, and with a complete lack of hope... what's the point? Each episode feels like punishment, instead of something I can relax with and/or learn from.
But, hey, if you can still get something out of it, rock on!
Actually, some of the negativity with the show/character and my own identification with the character has gotten me to thinking about stuff that's been going on with me, and where I might need to make changes.
I've been going to a very difficult time the past few/several months, and while to someone else it might be "oh, you totally don't have it that bad" (and in a lot of ways I don't), the dissatisfaction and paranoia and fear have put me in a not fun headspace.
Being able to watch the show without any real "expectation" or the intense investment that I used to feel, while at the same time watching Dean's issues and saying hey, I need to let this go/move on/re-evaluate . . . I don't know, it's just weirdly helpful.
I went over to WFB last month (to read the Jensen praise that Alice Jester wrote), and I've kind of stuck around, just to see what the vibe is. And there have been some interesting comments regarding that final scene. The place does strongly favor Sam, but the comments I've read were kind of insightful, considering that my default is to watch the show from Dean's POV.
This ep brought up some interesting character questions for me, which I might or might not expound upon later. Things like, now that Crowley has a craving for human blood, is that like Sam and his demon blood addiction? Does this addiction mean he does have that spark of humanity from Sam's attempted curing of him? Is Dean perhaps not working with a "demon" now, but working with something that is sort of a demon/human hybrid (99% demon, but 1% human conscience)?
Then Dean, who has always needed family around him emotionally, if not in a practical sense, is the one to walk away--for Sam's own good.
There does need to be some fallout. I always hope for satisfying resolution that includes working through the fallout, though we rarely seem to get it (except in fanfic).
I didn't expect Sam to try to talk Dean into staying. If Dean hadn't walked away, it would have been a major step of maturity for Sam *not* to walk away.
I've been saying since S4 or S5 that Dean is out on a ledge and that Sam better get his act together before Dean takes that final step. Part of me hopes that this is it--that with Dean going out on his own, in his current state of mind, that Sam will get his act together and see the urgency of pulling Dean back from the ledge.
I've got so much thinky where Dean is concerned, where this situation is concerned, the brothers' history (do you realize that Sam was the one who started the whole "by any supernatural means necessary" to save his brother? Back in "Faith." Where Dean's life was saved at the cost of others'. Dean was ready to die, but Sam wasn't willing to let him go).
I'm looking forward to next week, and hoping for some satisfying resolution with the boys' separation, so they can come together again with a healthier respect and appreciation for each other.
What is frustrating to me is that the show rarely acknowledges Dean's mental state and when it does it gets thrown aside the next episode when Sam has some new crisis. I want it addressed but I have very little hope that it will be.
I was saying on tumblr how Dean's main goal (echoing Trial and Error) is to get Sam his perfect ending. Get him his perfect ending via closing the gates of hell and pretty much everything he's done has been to keep Sam alive long enough to do that.
Afterwards, he's good to die.
I am really really looking forward to the brothers resolving this and I hope you get a better resolution than the one we got in Season 7 with the whole Amy fiasco.
Interesting observations on Sam being the first to employ whatever means necessary to save Dean.
I've been sick so I didn't stumble-lurk upon this until today. I wanted to comment though. I agree with what you said and a lot of the comments here. I am conflicted about Show, and actually, I'm hiding from a lot of the places I normally lurk after an episode airs because the majority of what I'm seeing out there is Dean f-ing deserved everything he got in the cliffhanger.
I liked the episode a lot, but I don't have a lot of hope they will maintain any type of consistency and *fix* all of the problems the show has. It isn't the show it used to be, and that bothers me a lot, but for once I wanted to see the next episode when this one ended when I didn't care that new episodes weren't on during hiatus at all. I still enjoy Jensen's work too. For whatever it's worth, the opening of the show made me more upset than the ending did. But the ending made me so upset I can't seem to read fic until they fix this, lol.
For some reason I thought the actor that played Corey looked a lot like Chad Michael Murray, and I kept wishing it was him doing a cameo because that would've been a lot funnier and helped what was probably the worst scene out of an otherwise good episode. Anyway, I am not sure where to draw the line with Show. I like both actors, but this doesn't feel like SPN and I want it to end before it becomes any worse.
the majority of what I'm seeing out there is Dean f-ing deserved everything he got in the cliffhanger.
I'm not seeing it stated quite so militantly, but yeah, I'm seeing much more "yay, Sam" and validation of his reaction (which is fine), but pretty much zero encouragement for Dean. I'm seeing a lot of "Dean needs some alone time" and "Dean needs to figure it out on his own" and "Dean needs to let Sam go" and the like. But I'm seeing very little or nothing of what I saw, which was that Dean didn't leave to "have some alone time" and "figure it out." He left to go hunt down an angel. He continues to think he's no good (which, yes, he needs to re-evaluate his thinking there and get some self-worth) and heading off to kill an angel. I heard no indication that he thought he'd be coming back. Quite the opposite, actually, even if he does come of it alive. And no invitation to return from Sam. (Sam won't kick Dean to the curb if he does come back, but I didn't hear anything to indicate that Sam expects Dean to come back.)
Of course we know they'll reunite eventually, and I'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. But in my head, there are some fic-ly dire outcomes playing out--Crowley returns with Dean's body after going after Abaddon; Crowley returns with a possessed Dean after going after Abaddon; possessed!Dean shows up at the bunker, since if Abaddon were to take possession, she'd know everything Dean knows; Cas hears word on "angel radio" (can he still hear that?) that Dean Winchester is dead, dying in a fight with Metatron and/or Gadreel . . . that sort of thing.
Dean's kill rate when it comes to angels (or any supernatural creature) is impressive, but it's still a near suicide mission.
I've re-watched most of this episode more than I've re-watched anything this season. There are a lot of interesting possibilities character-wise, and whichever route they choose to take, I wish they'd do it justice. (I say "wish" rather than "hope" based on past experience. I've yet to get a truly satisfying and earned resolution to this type of thing in the show.)
I think the opening of the show and the ending of the show were my favorite parts. Though I did love Castiel's voice of support for Dean, and Crowley might now have a drop of humanity (literally) in his blood, which would make it interesting if Crowley actually developed a conscience. With a reason, mind you. I would have been totally ticked if Ruby had turned out to be a "demon with a heart of gold," but having real reason for Crowley to become an ambiguous, conflicted ally of necessity might be interesting.
I'm going to stick with the show until it ends or Jensen leaves, whichever comes first. And even if Jensen leaves but the show continues, I'll probably stick with it to a point just to see how Sam copes. I look at S6-present as more of a sequel to the original movie, and though it's different, I still enjoy the characters. One of the things I missed most is that it used to take itself "seriously"--not as in highbrow drama, but as creating a universe that could exist in the shadows of our world. Cases were more personal, less Apocalypse of Doom-ish. You know what I mean?
But this episode had a lot of character work in it, and I wanted the next chapter, so that's a good thing. :-)
YES to everything you said. Unfortunately I have seen some pretty nasty anti-Dean stuff out there, and just no. I am a Dean!girl, but I love Sam too. Or at least the way Sam used to be. I miss the co-dependence. It hurts me to see so much of what Dean feels be one-sided now. I understand there should be fallout and consequences from Dean’s decision. But I don’t want to see it be played out the same way it was every other time where they separate for a little while and go back together like nothing ever happened. I still don't think the whole Sam never looking for Dean while he was in Purgatory thing was handled very well. Sam could have at least acted like he was glad Dean was back, but he never really did.
I’m glad Dean was the one walking away instead of Sam running away for once. I want to see some sort of dire consequences for Dean like you mentioned where Sam has to rescue him though, where he has to be the protective brother, where he shows he cares just as much about Dean as Dean cares for Sam again. Sam can be pissed off, yes. For a long time even. But I haven’t seen Sam really care about Dean since season 3, and the brotherly bond is what I am missing most from the show.
I agree with you, I tend to look at everything from S6 onwards as kind of a (disappointing) sequel. Trampling all over canon and killing Kevin didn’t help matters. Cas and Crowley were great in this episode, definitely. But overall the show needs to find a way to balance the brothers’ relationship out instead of tear it apart repeatedly and never really repair it. The episode opened up a lot of interesting possibilities, but I have lost faith that it will follow through on them. It's a shame we have to turn to fic or our own head canon to see stuff like this play out, when the show used to really deliver the angst and then have a good payoff for it.
I’d love to see Jensen play a possessed!Dean for a few episodes. I’d even love just to see a good old fashioned brothers hunting ghosts episode again. I am sick of watching the angel and demon wars with characters we don’t care about being brought on just to be killed off in the very same episode. I love Jensen’s work and I think Jared has improved a lot as an actor over the course of the show. I will miss seeing them in new episodes whenever the show does end, but I think I’d like to see them both move on to other challenges at this point if the show isn’t going to evolve past repeating the same old things over and over.
I don't adore it like I used to, but there's been some really cool stuff in this season so far. And this was a solid mythology ep, I though. I'm bored with the brothers leaving each other, but... this made more sense to me than some of the previous ones.
(Re: your conversation with someone above: Dean has been super theraputic for me, in terms of showing me all my issues in a mirror. That's why I still love the final few eps of season 5 more than they really deserve, and here... we're back to it. I was SO pleased that Sam could say to Dean what he's actually feeling--I think it will help when Dean comes back off this ledge. Honesty both ways is the best sign; both were being pretty bare-faced in that scene.)
If you've seen the most recent eps ("The Purge" prior to hiatus), you might understand when I say . . . Dean isn't coming back off this ledge. If anything, Sam has pushed him closer to the edge with the manner in which he's framed his recent honesty. :-(
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branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2014-01-15 05:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-15 12:45 pm (UTC)EEEKKK!
no subject
Date: 2014-01-15 11:57 am (UTC)This isn't the show I loved, AT ALL. It's ridiculously repetitive, tramples all over its own canon, is completely dismissive of good supporting characters... it's just crap. So I'm out, and I'm going to pretend it was cancelled at the end of last season - when really, it should have been cancelled at the end of S5.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-15 12:43 pm (UTC)The end-of-episode cliffhanger was such that if I had the next episode available, I would have watched it. For me, that's a good thing.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-15 04:57 pm (UTC)But, hey, if you can still get something out of it, rock on!
no subject
Date: 2014-01-15 05:37 pm (UTC)I've been going to a very difficult time the past few/several months, and while to someone else it might be "oh, you totally don't have it that bad" (and in a lot of ways I don't), the dissatisfaction and paranoia and fear have put me in a not fun headspace.
Being able to watch the show without any real "expectation" or the intense investment that I used to feel, while at the same time watching Dean's issues and saying hey, I need to let this go/move on/re-evaluate . . . I don't know, it's just weirdly helpful.
Maybe.
I'm not expressing myself well.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-15 03:38 pm (UTC)I really am tired of the brothers breaking up but I guess there had to be some fallout.
For once though I'd like to see Sam wanting to stick around.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-15 06:12 pm (UTC)This ep brought up some interesting character questions for me, which I might or might not expound upon later. Things like, now that Crowley has a craving for human blood, is that like Sam and his demon blood addiction? Does this addiction mean he does have that spark of humanity from Sam's attempted curing of him? Is Dean perhaps not working with a "demon" now, but working with something that is sort of a demon/human hybrid (99% demon, but 1% human conscience)?
Then Dean, who has always needed family around him emotionally, if not in a practical sense, is the one to walk away--for Sam's own good.
There does need to be some fallout. I always hope for satisfying resolution that includes working through the fallout, though we rarely seem to get it (except in fanfic).
I didn't expect Sam to try to talk Dean into staying. If Dean hadn't walked away, it would have been a major step of maturity for Sam *not* to walk away.
I've been saying since S4 or S5 that Dean is out on a ledge and that Sam better get his act together before Dean takes that final step. Part of me hopes that this is it--that with Dean going out on his own, in his current state of mind, that Sam will get his act together and see the urgency of pulling Dean back from the ledge.
I've got so much thinky where Dean is concerned, where this situation is concerned, the brothers' history (do you realize that Sam was the one who started the whole "by any supernatural means necessary" to save his brother? Back in "Faith." Where Dean's life was saved at the cost of others'. Dean was ready to die, but Sam wasn't willing to let him go).
I'm looking forward to next week, and hoping for some satisfying resolution with the boys' separation, so they can come together again with a healthier respect and appreciation for each other.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-15 09:45 pm (UTC)I was saying on tumblr how Dean's main goal (echoing Trial and Error) is to get Sam his perfect ending. Get him his perfect ending via closing the gates of hell and pretty much everything he's done has been to keep Sam alive long enough to do that.
Afterwards, he's good to die.
I am really really looking forward to the brothers resolving this and I hope you get a better resolution than the one we got in Season 7 with the whole Amy fiasco.
Interesting observations on Sam being the first to employ whatever means necessary to save Dean.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-16 08:06 pm (UTC)I liked the episode a lot, but I don't have a lot of hope they will maintain any type of consistency and *fix* all of the problems the show has. It isn't the show it used to be, and that bothers me a lot, but for once I wanted to see the next episode when this one ended when I didn't care that new episodes weren't on during hiatus at all. I still enjoy Jensen's work too. For whatever it's worth, the opening of the show made me more upset than the ending did. But the ending made me so upset I can't seem to read fic until they fix this, lol.
For some reason I thought the actor that played Corey looked a lot like Chad Michael Murray, and I kept wishing it was him doing a cameo because that would've been a lot funnier and helped what was probably the worst scene out of an otherwise good episode. Anyway, I am not sure where to draw the line with Show. I like both actors, but this doesn't feel like SPN and I want it to end before it becomes any worse.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 12:44 pm (UTC)I'm not seeing it stated quite so militantly, but yeah, I'm seeing much more "yay, Sam" and validation of his reaction (which is fine), but pretty much zero encouragement for Dean. I'm seeing a lot of "Dean needs some alone time" and "Dean needs to figure it out on his own" and "Dean needs to let Sam go" and the like. But I'm seeing very little or nothing of what I saw, which was that Dean didn't leave to "have some alone time" and "figure it out." He left to go hunt down an angel. He continues to think he's no good (which, yes, he needs to re-evaluate his thinking there and get some self-worth) and heading off to kill an angel. I heard no indication that he thought he'd be coming back. Quite the opposite, actually, even if he does come of it alive. And no invitation to return from Sam. (Sam won't kick Dean to the curb if he does come back, but I didn't hear anything to indicate that Sam expects Dean to come back.)
Of course we know they'll reunite eventually, and I'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. But in my head, there are some fic-ly dire outcomes playing out--Crowley returns with Dean's body after going after Abaddon; Crowley returns with a possessed Dean after going after Abaddon; possessed!Dean shows up at the bunker, since if Abaddon were to take possession, she'd know everything Dean knows; Cas hears word on "angel radio" (can he still hear that?) that Dean Winchester is dead, dying in a fight with Metatron and/or Gadreel . . . that sort of thing.
Dean's kill rate when it comes to angels (or any supernatural creature) is impressive, but it's still a near suicide mission.
I've re-watched most of this episode more than I've re-watched anything this season. There are a lot of interesting possibilities character-wise, and whichever route they choose to take, I wish they'd do it justice. (I say "wish" rather than "hope" based on past experience. I've yet to get a truly satisfying and earned resolution to this type of thing in the show.)
I think the opening of the show and the ending of the show were my favorite parts. Though I did love Castiel's voice of support for Dean, and Crowley might now have a drop of humanity (literally) in his blood, which would make it interesting if Crowley actually developed a conscience. With a reason, mind you. I would have been totally ticked if Ruby had turned out to be a "demon with a heart of gold," but having real reason for Crowley to become an ambiguous, conflicted ally of necessity might be interesting.
I'm going to stick with the show until it ends or Jensen leaves, whichever comes first. And even if Jensen leaves but the show continues, I'll probably stick with it to a point just to see how Sam copes. I look at S6-present as more of a sequel to the original movie, and though it's different, I still enjoy the characters. One of the things I missed most is that it used to take itself "seriously"--not as in highbrow drama, but as creating a universe that could exist in the shadows of our world. Cases were more personal, less Apocalypse of Doom-ish. You know what I mean?
But this episode had a lot of character work in it, and I wanted the next chapter, so that's a good thing. :-)
no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 03:09 pm (UTC)I’m glad Dean was the one walking away instead of Sam running away for once. I want to see some sort of dire consequences for Dean like you mentioned where Sam has to rescue him though, where he has to be the protective brother, where he shows he cares just as much about Dean as Dean cares for Sam again. Sam can be pissed off, yes. For a long time even. But I haven’t seen Sam really care about Dean since season 3, and the brotherly bond is what I am missing most from the show.
I agree with you, I tend to look at everything from S6 onwards as kind of a (disappointing) sequel. Trampling all over canon and killing Kevin didn’t help matters. Cas and Crowley were great in this episode, definitely. But overall the show needs to find a way to balance the brothers’ relationship out instead of tear it apart repeatedly and never really repair it. The episode opened up a lot of interesting possibilities, but I have lost faith that it will follow through on them. It's a shame we have to turn to fic or our own head canon to see stuff like this play out, when the show used to really deliver the angst and then have a good payoff for it.
I’d love to see Jensen play a possessed!Dean for a few episodes. I’d even love just to see a good old fashioned brothers hunting ghosts episode again. I am sick of watching the angel and demon wars with characters we don’t care about being brought on just to be killed off in the very same episode. I love Jensen’s work and I think Jared has improved a lot as an actor over the course of the show. I will miss seeing them in new episodes whenever the show does end, but I think I’d like to see them both move on to other challenges at this point if the show isn’t going to evolve past repeating the same old things over and over.
no subject
Date: 2014-02-06 06:54 am (UTC)I don't adore it like I used to, but there's been some really cool stuff in this season so far. And this was a solid mythology ep, I though. I'm bored with the brothers leaving each other, but... this made more sense to me than some of the previous ones.
(Re: your conversation with someone above: Dean has been super theraputic for me, in terms of showing me all my issues in a mirror. That's why I still love the final few eps of season 5 more than they really deserve, and here... we're back to it. I was SO pleased that Sam could say to Dean what he's actually feeling--I think it will help when Dean comes back off this ledge. Honesty both ways is the best sign; both were being pretty bare-faced in that scene.)
no subject
Date: 2014-02-08 02:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-10 12:42 am (UTC)