SPN - "Repo Man"
Feb. 20th, 2012 12:52 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
feliciakwThis was, to quote a famous space cowboy, morbid and creepifying.
It also STRESSED ME OUT!!!
And was pretty darned awesome. You know. In a morbid and creepifying kind of way.
"Four Years Ago"
This has been a point of lively debate the past few days. Is "four years ago" in S3 or in S4 (do we count the year Dean spent with Lisa, or do we count by seasons)? That was my first question when I saw that title--Where is it in the timeline. I really was hoping it was S3, because I would like to see more of Sam and Dean working together to break Dean's deal. So naturally, I was looking for clues. Other clues have been pointed out to me along the way.
First, THERE'S THE IMPALA! *waves* Hai, Baby!
Clues pointing to S3:
1) Impala has the searchlights. *wistful sigh* Those disappeared mid-S3.
2) I specifically looked to see if they were using Ruby's knife. They were not. Tracking the chain of custody on the knife is like playing a shell game sometimes, but in S4, it was in Sam and Dean's possession for most of the season, particularly at the point in time when this flashback would have had to have taken place. (I'll get to that in a minute.) Surely if it were S4, they'd have been using Ruby's knife to question the demon.
3) This would not be the only time they've interrogated a demon in S3. They also interrogated the demon in "Time Is On My Side." He could have been part of this same sweep.
4) They were looking for Lilith together. Again, something I noted and therefore specifically placed this scene in S3. In S4, Sam did his Lilith-hunting with Ruby. In fact, iirc, that was on if the points of conflict between the brothers--how Sam was very gung-ho on facing Lilith, and Dean wanted to go in smart and have a plan first.
5) They exorcised the demon using an exorcism. In S4, they didn't do a whole lot of exorcising, and when it was an exorcism, it was with Sam exorcising with his brain, which Dean didn't like.
6) In S4 Dean didn't want to revisit what he'd done in Hell. He hated himself for turning torturer. When told by Cas and Uriel that he had to torture Alistair, Dean told Cas, "If I go in there, you are not gonna like what comes back out." Dean was very reluctant and all but shut down after torturing Alistair in S4.
7) Dean made the concession of warning the host what he was going to do. This seems like a courtesy that "torture master" Dean wouldn't necessarily give.
8) Dean's line, "We're hunting them [demons]. All of them," brings to mind all the demons that escaped the devil's gate at the end of S2.
All of this leans heavily toward this scene being placed in S3.
Except . . .
There are some very persuasive points that put this scene in late S4.
1) Dean's torture technique. He uses the same techniques we see in S4.
Which led me to internally point out to Dean that he knows that's not going to work, especially since he's not using Ruby's knife, and there's no salt WT???. We've never really gotten any indication that physical hurt to the host causes any true or lasting pain to the demon. Holy water, salt (why were they not using salt in the flashback? It was one of Dean's primary tools in torturing Alistair), Ruby's knife, exorcisms, The Colt--those cause pain to the demon. Physical abuse, not so much. Meg threatened to bite off Sam's tongue in BUaBS. All of the physical torture Dean inflicted on Alistair did nothing to the demon, because things are "too concrete" topside. In fact, with all the terrible ways Dean was beating the guy up, I kept wondering what else they could do to the demon, and where was the salt, because the physical abuse wasn't going to do anything to the demon (unless it was done with Ruby's knife, which they didn't have). All of this leading me to place the scene in S3.
Still, one cannot ignore the technique in comparison to that used on Alistair, and the fact that Dean learned this stuff in Hell. If it is S4, it's late S4, since Dean isn't trying to deny or hide his aptitude, and Sam is so far gone on demon blood that he doesn't care that his brother is torturing a host, and is, in fact, taking part, and Dean is letting him. Does any of this sound like the characters we know, at any point in the series? ("Okay, Sam, I'll interrogate the guy, on one condition: I exorcise him the old-fashioned way." / "It's okay, Dean. I'll be right there with you. I'll help. You don't have to do this alone." Does any of that sound right?)
Now, this does open up some interesting--and very dark--possibilities. Did Dean agree to the torture in order to keep Sam from doing it his way--with his demon blood mojo? Was Sam at all disturbed to watch Dean doing this? He didn't seem to be.
This is an interesting Dean to explore, particularly looking back at the point in time when they were interrogating Meg 1.0. Dean's experiences have hardened him, and the Dean we see in the flashback is a Dean who is doing what needs to be done to get the job done, yet not one who is insensitive to the host. It's interesting to explore a Dean for whom this is a horrifically acquired skill, but one that he reluctantly recognizes the value of.
If I had to place this Dean, I'd say that this is 2014!Dean, or on his way to being. But that's not really an option.
2) Jeffrey mentions that after the interrogation, he said, it looked like he'd been through the Spanish Inquisition.
And given that Edlund wrote both OtHoaP and "The End," I"m reasonably sure that they were going for post-Hell Dean with this scene. (I imagine Jensen would say the same.)
So it comes to this: I think the producers wanted the S3 accoutrements and Dean's post-Hell skills. Basically, they're as confused as they've made us.
But . . . On with the rambly.
Impala! \o/
I find it very interesting that this demon refers to the host's body as a temple, rather than a meat suit. Interesting . . .
Amulet!
The actor playing Jefffrey is really very good. Switching back and forth from snarky evil demon to terrified host and back.
Is that a look of pride I see Sam directing toward Dean?
Dean doing the exorcism. Nice.
Dean driving the Impala \o/ taking Jeffrey to the hospital.
Lucifer's back. That's not good.
Huh. Dean is sleeping under the bedspread. When was the last time he did that? He appears to be fully clothed, but still, I can't recall him doing anything other than crashing on top if the bed in a long time.
Leviathan are everywhere, and Dean's just counting the days until they inadvertently make themselves known.
I cannot tell you how much it freaked me out when Lucifer stuck out his forked tongue. Just ewewewewewewflailewewewe!!!!
Also, this is interesting. Lucifer has become the manifestation of Sam's inner monologue? How much is Sam and how much is Lucifer? And when does the balance shift? Hm . . . .
Again, Jensen is looking quite good in this ep.
Oh, please don't do anything to the dog. *cringe*
See, this is what happens when you investigate strange sounds down an alley. You get a face full of holy water and a (demon-killing) knife at your throat.
Back in Jeffrey's room at the halfway house--
Four in the room is very disturbing. *shudder*
The demon who possessed Jeffrey is back. So, your first order of business should be to hand him an anti-possession charm, yes?
So, the demon was in to the obsessive serial killer approach. Sam is going to go keep an eye on the next vic while Dean hangs out and keeps an eye on Jeffrey, in case the demon shows up.
Sam and HalLucifer at the library. He's really petulant for a hallucination. Heh.
The doctor in the ER said Jeffrey looked like he'd gotten caught in the Spanish Inquisition. Lends itself to post-Hell Dean.
Dean is genuinely regretful of what he (and Sam) did to Jeffrey. Sorry for the things he couldn't stop (the demon), sorry for the things he did (the physical and psychological damage).
"You saved my life" is something Dean needs to hear more often than he does. (Unfortunately, Jeffrey doesn't mean it. Alas.)
Jeffrey . . . is a really disturbing character. This is one of those eps that plays one way the first time through (Jeffrey as victim caught in the crossfire, so to speak) and a totally different way the second time through (ruthlessly calculating, psychotic--and human--criminal telling Dean exactly what Dean needs to hear at precisely the right moment for things to play out).
Sam and HalLuci at the library. And suddenly people are headbanging on the table. Okay, disturbing. Gotta be a hallucination. Sam comes to the same conclusion, which, yes.
Who knew Lucifer could be so whiny? Is this Lucifer knocking on Sam's mental door? Or Sam's inner monologue getting bored with an uneventful stakeout?
Jeffrey takes Dean to an old warehouse. He guides Dean through to an area covered with sigils. Oh, this is not good. Dean tucks Jeffrey away in a corner to be safe, then proceeds forward, where he finds someone bound and gagged in a chair. Jeffrey? The real Jeffrey? 'Cause the Jeffrey Dean came with is still behind him. O.O Is that the real Jeffrey in the chair, and the other Jeffrey is a leviathan?!? Because leviathans can do that!
Whatever it is behind Dean, it sneaks up behind him and shoots him with a hypodermic. Ack!!!
Lucifer acting as Sam's internal monologue, but it's when HalLucifer suggests that Dean might be dead that he gets a response out of Sam. Sam addresses the hallucination directly, and this . . . is Sam answering that knock on the door. Dean's in trouble, and Dean is still Sam's weak spot.
And this? This is Lucifer. Reacting independently of anything Sam is doing or thinking. Earlier in the season (I forget which ep), I suggested that there might be an open line between Sam and The Cage. It would appear that this is the case.
In a word, EEEK!
And herein lies the point at which Lucifer ceases being amusing and starts turning my stomach. "The rapier wit . . ." I can't even finish the line. It's making me ill just thinking about it.
And when Sam starts actively engaging HalLucifer, directly asking him for help, whether he's still Sam's inner monologue or Lucifer channeling through the line, it's at this point that all is pretty much lost in that regard.
I reiterate: EEEK!
It's really disturbing that Sam has apparently been lulled into viewing the hallucination as a comfort. Lucifer is waiting for him when he breaks into Nora's office.
Nora knows what happened to Dean, and that's all that matters right now. Sam playing bad cop--highly amusing and awkward . . . unless Dean's life is on the line, in which case Sam can be pretty darn scary.
Jeffrey is a truly disturbing adversary. A human who liked being possessed. Who likes the company of a demon in his head. A fascinating twist to anything we've seen on the show before, and something the guys have never encountered before.
Jeffrey is, no doubt, named after Jeffrey Dahmer, though the victim profile fits more along the lines of the killer in Silence of the Lambs.
Jeffrey needs the blood of the exorcist--Dean's blood--to perform the ritual.
EEK! x3
Sam does not mess around. Tracking spell, use the body to find the body. Because Sam will get Dean back.
Jeffrey's bleeding Dean! EEK!
Jeffrey expounds a bit on what he learned about Dean during the torture session--that even in all of that, Dean still wanted to save people.
Frighteningly enough, it was the attempt to get Jeffrey back on the straight and narrow that encouraged him to pursue his evil agenda.
No, not the dog!!!
See, Jeffrey? Demon summonings never go the way you expect or plan. A bunch of high school kids found that out a couple years back.
The exchange between Jeffrey and the demon? Very disturbing. (I'm using that word a lot, aren't I.)
With Jeffrey squared away, the demon turns his attention to Dean.
Is anyone besides me concerned that Dean is still bleeding?
Surprise devil's trap on the ceiling! Much like the surprise devil's trap on the ceiling in "Caged Heat." Well, Sam is very tall, after all. *snerk*
Dean takes down Jeffrey the serial killer.
Mom exorcises demon. Demon threatens to return.
Back in the motel, Dean is wiped out. And, I might remind Sam, suffering from some blood loss. You patched him up before you left the warehouse, right, Sam?
No rest for Sam, though. The line is open, and Lucifer has a foothold. Oh, Sammy!
Once more for good measure: EEEEEEEK!!!!!!
This ep? Is quite the keeper, methinks. A very nice mix of . . . well . . . everything. Except maybe humor. That was last week. This one very much harkened back to days of yore:
*Demon case
*Sam's psychic abilities Sam's mental wall crumbled
*YEDLucifer pursuing Sam for nefarious purposes
* Dean as both victim and hero
* Random ally in Nora (might we even see her again?)
* A new and fantastic twist to the case
* An atmosphere of darkness and tension that kept me on the edge throughout the ep
We even had glimpses of:
* The amulet
* The Impala, complete with searchlights
* "Then" that included my favorite Lilith (the blonde girl)
Mr. Edlund, sir, you rock.
It also STRESSED ME OUT!!!
And was pretty darned awesome. You know. In a morbid and creepifying kind of way.
"Four Years Ago"
This has been a point of lively debate the past few days. Is "four years ago" in S3 or in S4 (do we count the year Dean spent with Lisa, or do we count by seasons)? That was my first question when I saw that title--Where is it in the timeline. I really was hoping it was S3, because I would like to see more of Sam and Dean working together to break Dean's deal. So naturally, I was looking for clues. Other clues have been pointed out to me along the way.
First, THERE'S THE IMPALA! *waves* Hai, Baby!
Clues pointing to S3:
1) Impala has the searchlights. *wistful sigh* Those disappeared mid-S3.
2) I specifically looked to see if they were using Ruby's knife. They were not. Tracking the chain of custody on the knife is like playing a shell game sometimes, but in S4, it was in Sam and Dean's possession for most of the season, particularly at the point in time when this flashback would have had to have taken place. (I'll get to that in a minute.) Surely if it were S4, they'd have been using Ruby's knife to question the demon.
3) This would not be the only time they've interrogated a demon in S3. They also interrogated the demon in "Time Is On My Side." He could have been part of this same sweep.
4) They were looking for Lilith together. Again, something I noted and therefore specifically placed this scene in S3. In S4, Sam did his Lilith-hunting with Ruby. In fact, iirc, that was on if the points of conflict between the brothers--how Sam was very gung-ho on facing Lilith, and Dean wanted to go in smart and have a plan first.
5) They exorcised the demon using an exorcism. In S4, they didn't do a whole lot of exorcising, and when it was an exorcism, it was with Sam exorcising with his brain, which Dean didn't like.
6) In S4 Dean didn't want to revisit what he'd done in Hell. He hated himself for turning torturer. When told by Cas and Uriel that he had to torture Alistair, Dean told Cas, "If I go in there, you are not gonna like what comes back out." Dean was very reluctant and all but shut down after torturing Alistair in S4.
7) Dean made the concession of warning the host what he was going to do. This seems like a courtesy that "torture master" Dean wouldn't necessarily give.
8) Dean's line, "We're hunting them [demons]. All of them," brings to mind all the demons that escaped the devil's gate at the end of S2.
All of this leans heavily toward this scene being placed in S3.
Except . . .
There are some very persuasive points that put this scene in late S4.
1) Dean's torture technique. He uses the same techniques we see in S4.
Which led me to internally point out to Dean that he knows that's not going to work, especially since he's not using Ruby's knife, and there's no salt WT???. We've never really gotten any indication that physical hurt to the host causes any true or lasting pain to the demon. Holy water, salt (why were they not using salt in the flashback? It was one of Dean's primary tools in torturing Alistair), Ruby's knife, exorcisms, The Colt--those cause pain to the demon. Physical abuse, not so much. Meg threatened to bite off Sam's tongue in BUaBS. All of the physical torture Dean inflicted on Alistair did nothing to the demon, because things are "too concrete" topside. In fact, with all the terrible ways Dean was beating the guy up, I kept wondering what else they could do to the demon, and where was the salt, because the physical abuse wasn't going to do anything to the demon (unless it was done with Ruby's knife, which they didn't have). All of this leading me to place the scene in S3.
Still, one cannot ignore the technique in comparison to that used on Alistair, and the fact that Dean learned this stuff in Hell. If it is S4, it's late S4, since Dean isn't trying to deny or hide his aptitude, and Sam is so far gone on demon blood that he doesn't care that his brother is torturing a host, and is, in fact, taking part, and Dean is letting him. Does any of this sound like the characters we know, at any point in the series? ("Okay, Sam, I'll interrogate the guy, on one condition: I exorcise him the old-fashioned way." / "It's okay, Dean. I'll be right there with you. I'll help. You don't have to do this alone." Does any of that sound right?)
Now, this does open up some interesting--and very dark--possibilities. Did Dean agree to the torture in order to keep Sam from doing it his way--with his demon blood mojo? Was Sam at all disturbed to watch Dean doing this? He didn't seem to be.
This is an interesting Dean to explore, particularly looking back at the point in time when they were interrogating Meg 1.0. Dean's experiences have hardened him, and the Dean we see in the flashback is a Dean who is doing what needs to be done to get the job done, yet not one who is insensitive to the host. It's interesting to explore a Dean for whom this is a horrifically acquired skill, but one that he reluctantly recognizes the value of.
If I had to place this Dean, I'd say that this is 2014!Dean, or on his way to being. But that's not really an option.
2) Jeffrey mentions that after the interrogation, he said, it looked like he'd been through the Spanish Inquisition.
And given that Edlund wrote both OtHoaP and "The End," I"m reasonably sure that they were going for post-Hell Dean with this scene. (I imagine Jensen would say the same.)
So it comes to this: I think the producers wanted the S3 accoutrements and Dean's post-Hell skills. Basically, they're as confused as they've made us.
But . . . On with the rambly.
Impala! \o/
I find it very interesting that this demon refers to the host's body as a temple, rather than a meat suit. Interesting . . .
Amulet!
The actor playing Jefffrey is really very good. Switching back and forth from snarky evil demon to terrified host and back.
Is that a look of pride I see Sam directing toward Dean?
Dean doing the exorcism. Nice.
Dean driving the Impala \o/ taking Jeffrey to the hospital.
Lucifer's back. That's not good.
Huh. Dean is sleeping under the bedspread. When was the last time he did that? He appears to be fully clothed, but still, I can't recall him doing anything other than crashing on top if the bed in a long time.
Leviathan are everywhere, and Dean's just counting the days until they inadvertently make themselves known.
I cannot tell you how much it freaked me out when Lucifer stuck out his forked tongue. Just ewewewewewewflailewewewe!!!!
Also, this is interesting. Lucifer has become the manifestation of Sam's inner monologue? How much is Sam and how much is Lucifer? And when does the balance shift? Hm . . . .
Again, Jensen is looking quite good in this ep.
Oh, please don't do anything to the dog. *cringe*
See, this is what happens when you investigate strange sounds down an alley. You get a face full of holy water and a (demon-killing) knife at your throat.
Back in Jeffrey's room at the halfway house--
Four in the room is very disturbing. *shudder*
The demon who possessed Jeffrey is back. So, your first order of business should be to hand him an anti-possession charm, yes?
So, the demon was in to the obsessive serial killer approach. Sam is going to go keep an eye on the next vic while Dean hangs out and keeps an eye on Jeffrey, in case the demon shows up.
Sam and HalLucifer at the library. He's really petulant for a hallucination. Heh.
The doctor in the ER said Jeffrey looked like he'd gotten caught in the Spanish Inquisition. Lends itself to post-Hell Dean.
Dean is genuinely regretful of what he (and Sam) did to Jeffrey. Sorry for the things he couldn't stop (the demon), sorry for the things he did (the physical and psychological damage).
"You saved my life" is something Dean needs to hear more often than he does. (Unfortunately, Jeffrey doesn't mean it. Alas.)
Jeffrey . . . is a really disturbing character. This is one of those eps that plays one way the first time through (Jeffrey as victim caught in the crossfire, so to speak) and a totally different way the second time through (ruthlessly calculating, psychotic--and human--criminal telling Dean exactly what Dean needs to hear at precisely the right moment for things to play out).
Sam and HalLuci at the library. And suddenly people are headbanging on the table. Okay, disturbing. Gotta be a hallucination. Sam comes to the same conclusion, which, yes.
Who knew Lucifer could be so whiny? Is this Lucifer knocking on Sam's mental door? Or Sam's inner monologue getting bored with an uneventful stakeout?
Jeffrey takes Dean to an old warehouse. He guides Dean through to an area covered with sigils. Oh, this is not good. Dean tucks Jeffrey away in a corner to be safe, then proceeds forward, where he finds someone bound and gagged in a chair. Jeffrey? The real Jeffrey? 'Cause the Jeffrey Dean came with is still behind him. O.O Is that the real Jeffrey in the chair, and the other Jeffrey is a leviathan?!? Because leviathans can do that!
Whatever it is behind Dean, it sneaks up behind him and shoots him with a hypodermic. Ack!!!
Lucifer acting as Sam's internal monologue, but it's when HalLucifer suggests that Dean might be dead that he gets a response out of Sam. Sam addresses the hallucination directly, and this . . . is Sam answering that knock on the door. Dean's in trouble, and Dean is still Sam's weak spot.
And this? This is Lucifer. Reacting independently of anything Sam is doing or thinking. Earlier in the season (I forget which ep), I suggested that there might be an open line between Sam and The Cage. It would appear that this is the case.
In a word, EEEK!
And herein lies the point at which Lucifer ceases being amusing and starts turning my stomach. "The rapier wit . . ." I can't even finish the line. It's making me ill just thinking about it.
And when Sam starts actively engaging HalLucifer, directly asking him for help, whether he's still Sam's inner monologue or Lucifer channeling through the line, it's at this point that all is pretty much lost in that regard.
I reiterate: EEEK!
It's really disturbing that Sam has apparently been lulled into viewing the hallucination as a comfort. Lucifer is waiting for him when he breaks into Nora's office.
Nora knows what happened to Dean, and that's all that matters right now. Sam playing bad cop--highly amusing and awkward . . . unless Dean's life is on the line, in which case Sam can be pretty darn scary.
Jeffrey is a truly disturbing adversary. A human who liked being possessed. Who likes the company of a demon in his head. A fascinating twist to anything we've seen on the show before, and something the guys have never encountered before.
Jeffrey is, no doubt, named after Jeffrey Dahmer, though the victim profile fits more along the lines of the killer in Silence of the Lambs.
Jeffrey needs the blood of the exorcist--Dean's blood--to perform the ritual.
EEK! x3
Sam does not mess around. Tracking spell, use the body to find the body. Because Sam will get Dean back.
Jeffrey's bleeding Dean! EEK!
Jeffrey expounds a bit on what he learned about Dean during the torture session--that even in all of that, Dean still wanted to save people.
Frighteningly enough, it was the attempt to get Jeffrey back on the straight and narrow that encouraged him to pursue his evil agenda.
No, not the dog!!!
See, Jeffrey? Demon summonings never go the way you expect or plan. A bunch of high school kids found that out a couple years back.
The exchange between Jeffrey and the demon? Very disturbing. (I'm using that word a lot, aren't I.)
With Jeffrey squared away, the demon turns his attention to Dean.
Is anyone besides me concerned that Dean is still bleeding?
Surprise devil's trap on the ceiling! Much like the surprise devil's trap on the ceiling in "Caged Heat." Well, Sam is very tall, after all. *snerk*
Dean takes down Jeffrey the serial killer.
Mom exorcises demon. Demon threatens to return.
Back in the motel, Dean is wiped out. And, I might remind Sam, suffering from some blood loss. You patched him up before you left the warehouse, right, Sam?
No rest for Sam, though. The line is open, and Lucifer has a foothold. Oh, Sammy!
Once more for good measure: EEEEEEEK!!!!!!
This ep? Is quite the keeper, methinks. A very nice mix of . . . well . . . everything. Except maybe humor. That was last week. This one very much harkened back to days of yore:
*Demon case
*
*
* Dean as both victim and hero
* Random ally in Nora (might we even see her again?)
* A new and fantastic twist to the case
* An atmosphere of darkness and tension that kept me on the edge throughout the ep
We even had glimpses of:
* The amulet
* The Impala, complete with searchlights
* "Then" that included my favorite Lilith (the blonde girl)
Mr. Edlund, sir, you rock.
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no subject
Date: 2012-04-24 04:07 pm (UTC)The whole Lucifer subplot was deeply strange to me, as I think it was intended to be. And I couldn't quite believe my ears with the line that you did not finish above. That and the forked tongue... if anyone was tempted to think of Luci as friendly, we're not going to be allowed to!
And for the first time in a long time, I am tempted to write fic. Not your typical stuff, either, but... about a halfway house that a retired hunter runs for victims of supernatural beings. I just... I have a feeling that could be mined for some really amazing stuff.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-26 03:25 pm (UTC)