SPN - 8.12 - "As Time Goes By"

[feliciakw]

Watched my download this morning. And I'm not sure what I think in my first blush reaction. Will have to re-watch and ponder.

My immediate reaction was that I liked the ep. Nice adventure, examination of the family dynamic, backstory.

I'm intrigued that there was a secret society of "elite" hunters (though they would never call themselves that). However, I dislike the disdain with which this "elite" sect looked down on hunters. Because the society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water. (With apologies credit to John W. Gardner)

And I'd lay money on Ezra Moore ("Time After Time") being a Woman of Letters.

I'm both twitchy and intrigued about John's family backstory. And yet, nothing that we learned changes anything of John's experience. He (and apparently his mother) knew nothing of this secret society, nor why Henry never came home that night. (I'm with Dean. Freakin' time travel. Makes my brain hurt.)

And I would think that John fans would really like this episode. The boys have come to an understanding of their father. They don't gloss over his faults, but they certainly accentuate the positive in as far as recognizing that he took care of them and was there for them, that he did the best he could. Of course, I saw this balance appear back in S6, and imo it's been pretty consistent since.

Another layer of mythology, though, makes my brain hurt. I wasn't real keen on the angels getting John and Mary together so that their sons could be angel vessels. But whatever. Now we have the added layer of getting the Hunters (Campbells) together with the Letters (Winchesters)--so indeed the two could be joined in one family! \o/ I just talked myself into it, I think. Oh! This cosmic arrangement makes sense! Getting the "brains" (Winchesters, John's bloodline, Dean) and the "brawn" (Campbells, Mary's bloodline, Sam . . . hold that thought . . . ) together in the same family, with each quality strongly present in both sons, who are to be the vessels of the archangels, SO THEY CAN STOP THE APOCALYPSE! (Which of course the angels in all their political maneuvering and impatience wouldn't get.) \o/ \o/ \o/ That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

I also find it really interesting that Dean, usually considered the "brawn," came from the Letters side of the family (the angels highlighted John's bloodline with Dean), while Sam, usually considered the "brains," has the bloodline that is (by default) highlighted as coming from the Hunter side of the family. (While at the same time, Sam took after John in a lot of ways, with Dean taking after Mary.)

Dean has time and again proven himself to be smart (and this episode is no exception), and Sam, with his stature and build, obviously carries some brawn of his own.

I hope that made sense. The multiple layers are making my brain hurt. Yeah, I'm gonna need to chew on this.

And though the circumstances were extremely tragic, how fortunate, nay, blessed, was Henry to have his grandsons with him when he died, in battle, defeating an apparently indestructible demon.

Okay, at this point, I want to re-watch the ep.

There was a lot of other cool stuff going on in the ep, too. Lots of amusing lines . . .

Henry to Sam and Dean: Have you ever exhumed a body before?
Me: Daily. Do you know what a salt-and-burn is, Gramps?

Abaddon was freaky (though Lilith was the first demon, and she was killable. Why not this chick?).

*toddles off to the wiki* Serge directed this one. Cool! And Adam Glass wrote it? Point to you, sir.

Not sure about this new Pandora's box of supernatural info. Throw it into the fires of Mordor, or lock it up in John's storage locker? Hm . . . And where is the super-warded place where they're supposed to drop the box?

So Dean and Sam are legacies. Not sure I want to go to one of those frat parties. A little too weird for my liking, I think.

Comments

[gluisa88.livejournal.com]

I was waiting for forever to hear your opinion!!

I lovedlovedloved the episode- it's the first time the show actually felt like Supernatural since- I don't know how long! That's not to knock previous seasons, it's just this felt like the Supernatural of old :)

Oh my goodness, I guess you're right about Dean being from the 'brains' bloodline so to speak- I've always seen it as Dean/Mary and Sam/John because personality-wise, there are a lot of parallels. However, John was the chosen bloodline for Michael and seeing as Dean was Michael's chosen vessel, Dean was from the John bloodline.

Of course, both brothers have both bloodlines in them... so maybe that's the point. These two extraordinary bloodlines coming together to form these two examples of genetic perfection :P Neither one could be called the brains and neither one could be called the brawn because they both have it all!

Okay I'm not quite sure if any of that made sense, I'm just kind of thinking out loud :P

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Oh, it made sense. And it's always been a mix of both. Growing up, Dean did everything to emulate his dad, while Sam did the exact opposite. Then it turns out that Sam is the one who takes after John in his temperament and motivations, and Dean who is revealed to be more like Mary.

So both boys are indeed a mix of both parents. And anyone with eyes can see that they won, as Kim Rhodes puts it, the "genetic lottery." (Though she's talking about Jensen and Jared, and in a completely different context. *G*)

Oh, yes, this one was exciting and thought provoking and a little niggly with the continuity. Not sure I buy that John's journal was supposed to be Henry's, with pre-written stuff in it--either that, or John's artwork improved incredibly over the years. But I am so totally willing to hand-wave that because this ep has so much going for it.

I think I might even be flailing just a little bit, which I haven't done in several eps, at least.

As an aside, I really need to keep away from spoilers. Ran across the mention of something that I totally don't want to know about until we get there.

[gluisa88.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't think the journal had pre-written stuff in it- I thought that Henry, being a whatever-the-hell-he-was-called had sent away for a journal to chronicle his own supernatural discoveries (much like what John ended up doing with the journal) but it didn't arrive until after he was dead.

Maybe I missed a line?

I know some people were upset because of that part in In the Beginning where that old guy told John to say hi to his old man. But I don't think it's too difficult to assume that John's mom remarried or whatever.

Okay, now you have to tell me what the spoiler you stumbled across was!

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

No, you didn't miss anything. Henry said he sent away for his journal, but it didn't arrive until after he was gone. But as they were looking through it, some of the pages looked pre-printed, and the artwork MUCH better than the crude sketches we've seen in the journal before. But like I said, *handwave*

I was going to add to my reply (but you replied before I could), so just to sum up:

In short, Dean is "from" John's bloodline, but takes after Mary. Sam is "from" Mary's bloodline, but takes after John. Each son has an element of each parent, thus the blending of two dynasties.

Re: the spoiler . . . I saw the words "chosen one" and "trials." That sounds very exciting, but I do not want to know ahead of time. I can imagine the sturm und drang that will take place in certain corners regarding the attendant speculation, and I want no part of it. That's why I avoid spoilers. I want to make my own decisions and go in as unbiased as possible. You know?

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Oh, also, the thing about his father vs. "In the Beginning" didn't even register on my radar, and it's easily explained. I don't know what the divorce laws would be, but I can see it being explained that Mrs. Winchester, after a given number of years, was able to get a divorce due to desertion, remarried, and John's stepfather would be the man the neighbor was referring to.

If that's the biggest continuity complaint people have, they're doing really well.

[ficwriter1966.livejournal.com]

Only have a quick second to comment, but I LOVE the idea of Ezra being a member of the MoL! There needs to be fic on that, asap!!

[vyperdd.livejournal.com]

With regards to Abaddon being so hard to kill while Lilith was easier despite being the first demon: Maybe it ties in to the fact that it took a fully demon-blood drinking powered up Sam to kill Lilith and break the final seal. Remember Ruby saying "It had to be you, Sam. It always had to be you." Maybe the only person who could kill Lilith was someone who had both hunter and Men Of Letters in their bloodline, combined with being fed demon blood as a baby: ie Sam, son of Mary (a hunter), grandson of Henry (a MOL). Perhaps Sam could have killed Abaddon if he still had his powers.

I'm also thinking that if Henry's disdain for hunters was typical amongst MOL families that there possibly wouldn't have been many, if any, marriages between the two communities and therefor not many, if any, offspring that had both bloodlines. Which may also explain why it took angels intervening to make sure John and Mary met and had Sam and Dean.

[feliciakw.livejournal.com]

Your theory regarding Abaddon vs. Lilith is a good one, and makes sense. I've also thought that perhaps Lilith being the first demon, she was perhaps not built to "full strength" like Abaddon. Or was not made for the same purpose. It's not really something I'm going to nitpick.

Maybe the only person who could kill Lilith was someone who had both hunter and Men Of Letters in their bloodline, combined with being fed demon blood as a baby:

Although this then calls into question all the other psyckids who had special powers and (iirc) received the demon blood as well, and were contenders for the crown. (Would have to re-watch "In the Beginning" for YED's speech about that.) Which gets into leader of demon army vs. opener of the cage vs. angel vessels, and takes me on a completely different rhetorical tangent that really doesn't add anything to the current situation. So I'll stop there.

I'm also thinking that if Henry's disdain for hunters was typical amongst MOL families that there possibly wouldn't have been many, if any, marriages between the two communities and therefor not many, if any, offspring that had both bloodlines.

This makes sense, but I don't think it applies to John and Mary. John was never a MoL, so that prejudice would not be what kept John and Mary apart, because John was not part of that world. That's one of the reasons Mary liked him, she wanted him to take her away from that life, which he promised to do. And the reason Samuel didn't particularly want Mary seeing John wasn't because John was a MoL, it was because he was a civilian. Which really is neither here nor there. What Cupid said was that John and Mary didn't like each other, so Cupid intervened, and they fell in love. Dynasties joined, destinies mapped, and so on.

ETA: Oh! John not being a part of that world could also be why angel intervention was required. Hm . . . /ETA

I think, though, that I like the potential this new development has. I'm eager to see where it goes.